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If California can't do it, let's do it for them.
- Thread starter klenger
- Start Date
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I voted YES, and I'm not from California... .
Hope this helps them out.
Duane
Hope this helps them out.
Duane
I couldn't stand it anymore and moved away. The only time I enjoyed seeing his name was when it was on the lower right of my tax refund. They can keep him if they want him.
As long as the big cities call the tune and force the rural areas to dance, you must dance or sit in the corner and try not to be seen.
As long as the big cities call the tune and force the rural areas to dance, you must dance or sit in the corner and try not to be seen.
I reserve my opinion on whether or not the 9th Circuit Court is correct - but I just read that they get overturned by the Supremes about 75% of the time - vs 74% for Circuit Courts of Appeal overall. So (presuming what I read is correct), even if they were the most overturned (not likely mathematically), they're still in the mainstream as defined by the Supreme Court.
I voted yes - both here and via absentee ballot!
The Federal Courts have absolutely no business interfering with a process that is explicitly spelled out and defined in the State Constitution of California. The courts are not intended to enact legislation, but ONLY to determine if someone violates existing laws. Only a Supreme Court has the position and authority to decide if any particular law itself is unjust or un-Constitutional.
But, the 9th circus court is based in San Francisco.....
The Federal Courts have absolutely no business interfering with a process that is explicitly spelled out and defined in the State Constitution of California. The courts are not intended to enact legislation, but ONLY to determine if someone violates existing laws. Only a Supreme Court has the position and authority to decide if any particular law itself is unjust or un-Constitutional.
But, the 9th circus court is based in San Francisco.....
Ram4Sam
TDR MEMBER
Loncray, I would like to....
Invite you to come live here in California! With your ability to rationalize all the lame things that the bonehead liberals do here in California, you would absolutley love it here. Oo. Three quarters of all the decisions that court makes are reversed and you still think of them as mainstream
Of course, my personal favorite, from your post in the other thread
"I figure Bill Clinton COULD be guilty of almost every rational thing he was blamed for - money in Whitewater, sex in the Oval Office, whatever"
You are the eternal optimist! You could put that on a bumper sticker and sell a million of them out here. Come on in, the water is fine!
Sam
Invite you to come live here in California! With your ability to rationalize all the lame things that the bonehead liberals do here in California, you would absolutley love it here. Oo. Three quarters of all the decisions that court makes are reversed and you still think of them as mainstream
Of course, my personal favorite, from your post in the other thread
"I figure Bill Clinton COULD be guilty of almost every rational thing he was blamed for - money in Whitewater, sex in the Oval Office, whatever"
You are the eternal optimist! You could put that on a bumper sticker and sell a million of them out here. Come on in, the water is fine!
Sam
Nah, too many conservatives out there! At least, enough to sign a petition of recall, though it was looking like the recall would have been much closer to defeat than it was a few months ago. Actually, I wouldn't try to rationalize any of the extremist lefty positions any more than I would the extremist rightist ones. Those guys who spike trees and burn SUV's are just as bad as the guys shooting abortion doctors. It's that whole extremism thing that gets me - and Grey Davis is closer to the center than the guy who spent all that money to get rid of him. I think CA needs to change it's recall laws to be like the rest of the country - if you disagree with the results of an election (barring actual criminal acts), you take care of it at the next election! Did anything Gov. Davis do in his reelection campaign rise to the level of indictable crime? No? Then leave the man alone and elect somebody else NEXT TIME. Of course, I did say the same things about President Clinton.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21545-2003Sep16.html
The part I was referring to earlier: <<Conservatives charge that the 9th Circuit is not only the most liberal of the appellate courts, but also the one that is reversed most often by the Supreme Court.
"The Supreme Court now spends a large amount of its time reversing them," said Kent Scheidegger, legal director of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation in Sacramento. "Its main problem is it has too many judges who are results-oriented and decide according to their opinions rather than the law. We've got a long string of wrong decisions, and the Supreme Court is not capable of correcting them all. "
But others dispute the assertion that the 9th Circuit is the most reversed of the appellate courts. Erwin Chemerinsky, a University of Southern California law professor, said that in its past term, the Supreme Court reversed 74 percent of the cases it reviewed from all of the appellate courts and 75 percent of the cases it heard from the 9th Circuit. He said the 9th Circuit's reversal rate has closely tracked the national average the last several years.
Chemerinsky also said that the 9th Circuit's reputation for unbridled liberalism was the result of a "very unfair and inaccurate attack" by conservatives.
"It's absolutely diverse ideologically, and its reversal rate is right at the national average," he said. "For every liberal there is a very conservative judge. For every moderate liberal you can point to a moderate conservative. There is no consensus on the court, certainly no liberal consensus. ">>
The part I was referring to earlier: <<Conservatives charge that the 9th Circuit is not only the most liberal of the appellate courts, but also the one that is reversed most often by the Supreme Court.
"The Supreme Court now spends a large amount of its time reversing them," said Kent Scheidegger, legal director of the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation in Sacramento. "Its main problem is it has too many judges who are results-oriented and decide according to their opinions rather than the law. We've got a long string of wrong decisions, and the Supreme Court is not capable of correcting them all. "
But others dispute the assertion that the 9th Circuit is the most reversed of the appellate courts. Erwin Chemerinsky, a University of Southern California law professor, said that in its past term, the Supreme Court reversed 74 percent of the cases it reviewed from all of the appellate courts and 75 percent of the cases it heard from the 9th Circuit. He said the 9th Circuit's reversal rate has closely tracked the national average the last several years.
Chemerinsky also said that the 9th Circuit's reputation for unbridled liberalism was the result of a "very unfair and inaccurate attack" by conservatives.
"It's absolutely diverse ideologically, and its reversal rate is right at the national average," he said. "For every liberal there is a very conservative judge. For every moderate liberal you can point to a moderate conservative. There is no consensus on the court, certainly no liberal consensus. ">>
No, no, no - they're not leaving only 26% of Appeals Court decisions unchanged. The US Supreme Court (unlike every other Appeals court I know of) picks and chooses among cases very carefully to see which ones it wants to take. They aren't overturning 74% of every Appeals Court (or state Supreme Court) decisions, only the ones they actually see. I'm very curious now to see the total percentages of cases the Supremes even see - can't be more than about 1 or 2% of the cases seen by the Circuit Courts of Appeal and state Supreme Courts (and whichever other administrative courts funnel up to the US Supremes) overall. And 74% of 2% ain't nowhere near a failing grade!
The funny thing is, I don't agree with the 3-judge panel in the 9th Circuit's decision to stop the recall now, but I believe the new, larger panel will overturn that decision.
The funny thing is, I don't agree with the 3-judge panel in the 9th Circuit's decision to stop the recall now, but I believe the new, larger panel will overturn that decision.
Ram4Sam
TDR MEMBER
But of course...
Loncray, my mistake, I should have seen that this was just another case of an innocent liberal entity becoming the latest victim of the "vast right wing conspiracy"
That seems to be the excuse whenever a liberal has to justify something. Have you guys ever thought where you be without that concept? I hope you all thanked Hillary for coming up with it, you would be lost without it.
We don't need to change the recall laws , laws and election results don't mean much here. All the liberals do when they lose the vote on something is just get one of their pocket judges to set aside the will of the people. Davis is a victim of the same process that he and his kind have used so effectively in the past.
The issue with Davis is not his extremism, he is a liar. He told some real whoppers to get re-elected. That is his crime. But, here in California, if you are a liberal/democrat, dishonesty is okay if it is used to defeat a conservative. Davis did what the some of the others have, he just wasn't as good as them and got caught for his pack of lies.
"Nah, too many conservatives out there!"
Now, there's a whopper!
Sam
Loncray, my mistake, I should have seen that this was just another case of an innocent liberal entity becoming the latest victim of the "vast right wing conspiracy"
That seems to be the excuse whenever a liberal has to justify something. Have you guys ever thought where you be without that concept? I hope you all thanked Hillary for coming up with it, you would be lost without it.
We don't need to change the recall laws , laws and election results don't mean much here. All the liberals do when they lose the vote on something is just get one of their pocket judges to set aside the will of the people. Davis is a victim of the same process that he and his kind have used so effectively in the past.
The issue with Davis is not his extremism, he is a liar. He told some real whoppers to get re-elected. That is his crime. But, here in California, if you are a liberal/democrat, dishonesty is okay if it is used to defeat a conservative. Davis did what the some of the others have, he just wasn't as good as them and got caught for his pack of lies.
"Nah, too many conservatives out there!"
Now, there's a whopper!
Sam
Actually, I believe your Senator McClintock called the 9th Circuit decision something similar to a "left-wing conspiracy". I'm in favor of letting the rightwing and leftwing nuts fight it out. I dunno if this helps Gov. Davis or not - the trend seemed to be going against the recall about the same as the trend in public opinion about the President - moving slowly in a downward direction.
As to Gov. Davis lying, you still haven't shown one single indictable offense. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit! As to my crack about conservatives, wasn't that complete nutball B1-Bob from CA?
As to the recall process, I think CA needs to look at their entire system of voter initiatives - some of those have left the governor with very little power to change the budget to meet conditions - conditions such as Enron and their ilk conspiring to steal billions. And I don't see many liberals having profitted from that process.
As to Gov. Davis lying, you still haven't shown one single indictable offense. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit! As to my crack about conservatives, wasn't that complete nutball B1-Bob from CA?
As to the recall process, I think CA needs to look at their entire system of voter initiatives - some of those have left the governor with very little power to change the budget to meet conditions - conditions such as Enron and their ilk conspiring to steal billions. And I don't see many liberals having profitted from that process.
Ram4Sam
TDR MEMBER
Nobody wants to jail him...
Nobody wants to indict(?) him, we just don't want him as the gov. Since he wont go quietly, that makes a recall necessary. As for the whole system needing to be replaced, you are right, look who is in charge of it, the liberals!
To this conservative, lieing is an indictable offense, I guess we will always disagree on this issue.
Sam
Nobody wants to indict(?) him, we just don't want him as the gov. Since he wont go quietly, that makes a recall necessary. As for the whole system needing to be replaced, you are right, look who is in charge of it, the liberals!
To this conservative, lieing is an indictable offense, I guess we will always disagree on this issue.
Sam
Last edited:
Re: Nobody wants to jail him...
Won't go quietly?!? He won the election, there was no reason for him to go - unless he committed a crime.
To this moderate, all politicians lie. The difference between a liberal lying and a conservative lying is that when the conservatives do it, people die. Iraq has been a big lie for awhile - weapons of mass destruction that aren't there (and don't tell me that Clinton shoulda gone after them - the conservatives went nuts when Clinton went into Kosovo - not a motivation to go into Iraq), a plan for peace that doesn't exist even now, links between Saddam and Osama that don't seem to exist either. So where's the indictment of GW Bush? Or Ronald Reagan, who was either completely asleep at the switch in Iran Contra - or playing games with Congress that involved many people's lives. Where's that indictment? If the courts were that liberal, Ronnie would've had to be released from prison to live out his remaining years.
Originally posted by Ram4Sam
Nobody wants to indict(?) him, we just don't want him as the gov. Since he wont go quietly, that makes a recall necessary. As for the whole system needing to be replaced, you are right, look who is in charge of it, the liberals!
To this conservative, lieing is an indictable offense, I guess we will always disagree on this issue.
Sam
Won't go quietly?!? He won the election, there was no reason for him to go - unless he committed a crime.
To this moderate, all politicians lie. The difference between a liberal lying and a conservative lying is that when the conservatives do it, people die. Iraq has been a big lie for awhile - weapons of mass destruction that aren't there (and don't tell me that Clinton shoulda gone after them - the conservatives went nuts when Clinton went into Kosovo - not a motivation to go into Iraq), a plan for peace that doesn't exist even now, links between Saddam and Osama that don't seem to exist either. So where's the indictment of GW Bush? Or Ronald Reagan, who was either completely asleep at the switch in Iran Contra - or playing games with Congress that involved many people's lives. Where's that indictment? If the courts were that liberal, Ronnie would've had to be released from prison to live out his remaining years.
Nah, just answering your comment about lying. My opinion on the recall is that it's a naked power play by somebody who would never have been elected in a real election - but it's within the screwy laws of CA. I also think that the 9th Circuit will overturn the earlier decision, and that's a good thing - you might as well let things take their course now - postponing things leaves everybody in a weird stasis for months. I think the GOP made a huge mistake - they'll end up with the more liberal Bustamante as governor instead of the moderate Davis. Even if they win, they get Arnold, who is a social liberal on several issues. Or Davis stays. 3 different ways for the conservatives in the CA GOP to get hosed - it doesn't get any better than that! 
I'm getting ready to head for home as soon as they close my court. The DC Metro area is right in the middle of the path of Isabel.
I'm getting ready to head for home as soon as they close my court. The DC Metro area is right in the middle of the path of Isabel.
Ram4Sam
TDR MEMBER
Ouch!!
"3 different ways for the conservatives in the CA GOP to get hosed - it doesn't get any better than that! "
Lonny, that hurt! But I do believe you may be right. We will probably take it in the shorts from the liberals again. But it may not hurt that bad, the liberals have been poking around back there for so long, it's getting kind of numb.
Good luck with the storm and hope you and yours remain safe.
Sam
"3 different ways for the conservatives in the CA GOP to get hosed - it doesn't get any better than that! "
Lonny, that hurt! But I do believe you may be right. We will probably take it in the shorts from the liberals again. But it may not hurt that bad, the liberals have been poking around back there for so long, it's getting kind of numb.
Good luck with the storm and hope you and yours remain safe.
Sam
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