If fuel remained at $1.00 more per gallon for Diesel

[hammersley]

Don't you think with the exception of some of us Diesel Heads that Diesels will NOT make the nig inroads as we might think? I mean I know all the adbantages ... .



15000 Miles a year

Fuel Cost Diesel - $3. 20

Gas - $2. 20



Average MPG 22 for Diesel

14 for Gas



Annual Fuel $$$ Diesel $2182

Annual Fuel $$$ Gas $2357



A Whopping Savings of $175



Now if we use 11 for a gas 3/4 truck

and 17 for a Diesel and use the same assumptions

the savings for the Diesel is: A Whopping $176!!!!



Nobody has to tell me the advantage BUT I Think selling this to John Q Public will Not Work very well... ..... and don't forget the additional up front $$$ of the Diesel - I know all about the resale and all the other advantages - just that the regular folks won't want to jump at this raping by Big Oil!

 

[Crazygator]

Your thread made me think in a different way.



Same truck Gas vs Diesel, add on performance chips, exhaust, etc...



There is no way a Gas motor would ever get better fuel mileage when putting on performance parts, as verses diesels. So we are far ahead either way it goes.



Plus if anyone has a gas motor in their truck and tows with it, it aint the same. Diesel is where its at. You do offer good points.

 

[Graphic man]

you had to point that out... ... . :{ :{ :{



sad but true!



Scott

 

[AMink]

Don't forget the initial $4-$5,000+ for a diesel up front. That'll still buy a lot of gas... I think that the diesel segment, at least trucks, may be hurt by this.

 

[SSabick]

Ok, so it is soo much more fun to drive a BOMBED truck, but here again... Already dropping $4000+ more for the diesel up front, then you are dropping more... (most often much more) to upgrade drive train to handel more power. Then usually, thats when the bomb bug hits, then you invest in more fuel, and air through a bigger turbo... then you... ... the list goes on. the gassers on the other hand spend as much on upgrades, just to lose MPG, and take their vehicles down to around 8 MPG, while the 500HP diesels are still getting around 17ish mpg. And still grinning ear to ear every time they get into their truck. Different strokes for different folks I say.

 

[klenger]

Average MPG 22 for Diesel

I don't think so. I've topped out at 21. 5, but it would be pretty hard to average 22.



Two other comments:



1) I truely believe that the higher price of diesel is temporary and will adjust itself.



2) One should not make a decision to buy of sell anything as expensive as a truck or RV based on short term conditions or emotions.



3) I'll keep my CTD. :-laf

 

[CTD 600]

That's right. You have to be in it for the long run, putting many miles on the engine to have itself pay off. There are other options that you can perform on a diesel engine to help save fuel that you can't do on gassers. ( biodiesel,propane)ect. .

 

[BarryG]

One other point to add is that if John Q public embraces diesels the supply of diesel is going to get tighter since you only get like 10gals of diesel out of a barrel of oil compared to what is it like 25 gals of gas (the balance being heavy fuel oil, asphalt etc) and there is not much adjusting you can do to that ratio I think.

Though I thought I read a while back that we are exporting diesel to europe and in return we are importing gasoline from them.

 

[Tony T.]

I believe first time (thinking about owners) will come near weighing the advantages and dis-advantages of owning a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel truck myself JMO. My example is myself, we was planning to trade up to a larger 5th wheel trailer over our current 28ft TT, and the price of diesel hovering usually 10 to 15 cents under regular unleaded back in the day, "remember" , but right after buying my Dodge CTD, two months later my wife has a car wreck, can't work now due to injuries,and only one income coming into our humble household (it can happen to you). This accident and most lately the higher and higher cost of fuel which in return raises prices on other goods as well has limited our going time any more. Before the new truck purchase we were on the go alot going camping, at least once a month sometimes twice a month year around. I guess in reality and all honestity in my case I really don't need the truck, but love having it since buying it new. I'm just lucky I have a short commute to work and back compared to some people. Probably if I could have foreseen the future I would not have owned my current truck. I'm not looking to sell either, already hooked on the diesel fumes I guess, and glad it's paid for. :-laf



There again a person would probably need to really think about what they are going to use the truck for before jumping out on a wild hair and have it just parked in the drive unless they just have the money to burn.



Tony

 

[hammersley]

One other point to add is that if John Q public embraces diesels the supply of diesel is going to get tighter since you only get like 10gals of diesel out of a barrel of oil compared to what is it like 25 gals of gas (the balance being heavy fuel oil, asphalt etc) and there is not much adjusting you can do to that ratio I think.

Though I thought I read a while back that we are exporting diesel to europe and in return we are importing gasoline from them.

I had never heard this before - are you sure of this? If you are correct then why haven't we heard this in regards to the justification of higher diesel costs and when gas was 20 cents a gallon in the 60's diesel was 15 cents... ...

 

[JasonCzerak]

Diesel was $3. 29 when I filled up last week. I missed out on $3. 55 by a few days. On the way home from the club today my GF spotted $2. 95. I'm due to fill up tomorrow... . back to subj $100 fill ups now.

 

[wxman]

One other point to add is that if John Q public embraces diesels the supply of diesel is going to get tighter since you only get like 10gals of diesel out of a barrel of oil compared to what is it like 25 gals of gas (the balance being heavy fuel oil, asphalt etc) and there is not much adjusting you can do to that ratio I think.

According to the EIA, the amount of middle distillate vs. naphtha (gasoline stock, apparently), is about 2:1 by simple distillation:



#ad




The refining process typically reverses this amount of middle distillates vs. gasoline to approximately 1:2:



#ad




Furthermore, refineries can apparently shift this yield around quite a bit:



"... Within the refinery, the ratio of petrol to distillate can be varied in two ways. First, the crude oil mixture fed to the refinery can be richer in naphthas to maximize petrol or in middle distillates to maximize diesel. Second, heavy oil can be processed to lighter products. Typically, petrol and middle distillates comprise 40% of the barrel. Nearly 60% of the barrel consists of heavy residual fuel oils. These are catalytically cracked (FCC), hydrocracked, and thermally cracked (visbreaking and coking) to convert a portion of the residual oils to petrol and middle distillates. The primary tool is the FCC. The severity of the FCC, termed conversion, is variable. As the conversion is increased, the ratio of petrol to fuel oils is increased... . "



http://www.unep.org/PCFV/Documents/PubGraboskiReport.pdf (page 18)



I'm certainly no expert in petroleum refining, but this is what I've run across.

 

[jgillott]

The difference in fuel cost has already had an effect on my driving habits. My wife and I drive a little over 2000 miles/month, most of which we travel together. We have 2 trucks to choose from sitting in the driveway, my Ram and her '05 Silverado 1/2 ton. They both average very similar fuel economy... approximately 17 mpg in our daily driving. Currently gas is 2. 19 and diesel is 2. 99 here. Running the gasser saves us just about $100 a month.



We spent almost 6 months trying to decide what new truck to buy for my wife, and we almost came home with another diesel. But to be honest with you, we just couldn't justify the cost difference for a second 3/4 ton when we hardly work the one we have. I'm sure that we will be wishing we had gone with a diesel as we continue to rack up the miles on this gasser, but for now, we are happy with the choice we made.

 

[BarryG]

Sure looks like I stand corrected on the ability to change the distillation ratios. That is really good news. I remember thinking wherever I read that (I thought it was on thread here or another ctd site) how eurpoe was dealing with that since they use so much more diesel. Then when I read that we were shipping diesel over there in exchange for gasoline I thought again of that thread. (Good reason to do your own research instead of just regurgitating what others have said and accepted as fact). That can sure change the view for sure.



Thanks wxman for the insight.

 

[wxman]

Barry - you're welcome.



Guess what I haven't been able to find out is how long it takes refiners to adjust the yields to accommodate market conditions. Seems like it's taken them a long time to adjust to the current diesel shortage/gasoline surplus market.

 

[Burner]

I thought that Diesel cost less than gas to produce? I remember something about the *energy* consumed to produce 1 gal of Diesel was roughfly half that of gasoline. That and containment of the fuels. .....

 

[RustyJC]

I thought that Diesel cost less than gas to produce?

Since the advent of today's lower sulfur level fuels, diesel refining costs are up from those of just a few years ago.



Rusty

 

[AGrubbs]

If fuel was remained $1 more....

I would drive my TDI more often(52 MPG ave. on D2 last 3 tanks), and I would use the truck mostly for hauling stuff or when I had to go out in very bad weather. .



I usually drive the most in the late spring/summer time (when D2 is normally cheaper) and much less in late fall/winter when heating oil useage drives D2/D1 up anyways. Vacations are much more fun when its warm out and the bikinis' are in full bloom!



Yes, the CTD adds $3-5K more at start, but you would also be able to get some of your investment back if you sold it. Also, that $3-5K is not much compared to buying a new gasser (truck or motor) every 100-150K miles cuz the engine is about shot from pulling heavy. . and your CTD still goes strong for another 150K miles! (assuming you don't get tired of it and want a new model, or the body rusts off the drive train before you get there!)



But, another thought, when (not IF) gas gets to $4 a gallon and IF diesel was $1 more, It would be cheaper $/mile to drive the CTD instead of a Hemi-rod! I would still gloat while at the pumps! :-laf



BTW- I filled up the TDI several weeks ago, and at 700+ miles/tank, I still haven't bought any fuel above $3 a gallon. Same with the truck, about 600+ miles to a tank, haven't bought any $3 for it yet either. (I'm just glad its not summer vacation time!)



Sorry for my sleep deprived rambleings... just my $0. 25 (adjusted for inflation)

 

[tschwab]

Two other comments:



1) I truely believe that the higher price of diesel is temporary and will adjust itself.



2) One should not make a decision to buy of sell anything as expensive as a truck or RV based on short term conditions or emotions.

Great points Ken. I have been so pi$$ed about the price of diesel and the greedy oil companies that I have thought seriously about selling the truck and the 5th wheel. I can only hope what goes around comes around - Someday there will be a widley used (bio-diesel is a start) renewable fuel source and the exxon-mobiles of the world will "feel the pain".

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Someday there will be a widley used (bio-diesel is a start) renewable fuel source and the exxon-mobiles of the world will "feel the pain".

Highly doubtful, the corporate execs will be long retired before we ever have a mainstream fuel replacement in effect.

I feel like a guinea pig being subjected to shock therapy everytime I pull up to the pumps lately. It is only a matter of time before I find out the feeding tube for my truck is what is causing the pain.

I wonder how bad this winter is going to be, I doubt the commodities markets will let the chance slip by to crank up their profits for Christmas time. Can't wait to pay $20. 00 for a single hot wheels car for my son's christmas stocking #@$%! (after every product we buy is hammered with a fuel surcharge fee)