ignition switch ?

[bgilbert]

Ok all, let me add to the ever increasing topics on this 1st gen forum, we might have to have the split forums, engine/transmission only, everything else? Ok my problem is on my 89. 'Mr. Reliable', as he's a he cause 'he' stills has his critical body parts. . , failed me the other night. Fired right up, no block heater, 15*f, idle 10mins, drive 10 mins to bar, turn him off. Come back after about an hour, get in have dome light, all lights, door buzzer, radio etc, turn key to start position, nothing, no crank, no engine turning over, message center lights come on when i hold key turned over, they go out when key is released- as normal. Engine is warm, no need for grid heat. Only noise is what i believe to be the starter relay clicking when I turn key over, comin from the driver side fender area. No flash light. Pop hood, do the ole wiggle everything. I'm thinking its the ignition switch. Get a buddy to come and pull start me. Drive home to switch trucks for the rest of the night. Shut it down. Wait a min, try starting, fires right up, repeat 4 times and it fires right up. Come out next morning, 10*f, cycle grids twice, fires right up. Take it out that night, park it, shut if off, come back, same problem, no start. This time I'm not calling someone, I assume its a loose ignition wire or something, I hold the key over in start position, and reach under dash and start wiggling wires, after a min or so, zoom it fires right up. Again no flashlite, so I dont know what wire I played with. Went out today, fires right up, ok lets try something different. Shut if off, wiggle wires underneath the dash, try to start now, no go, no start.

Heres a little background, for some time, I've had an intermittent heater a/c blower problem. Start it up, no blower, shut it off, key in run position, heater blows, start back up, no blower. After a couple start ups i would get the blower to work with truck running. Now after searching the archives, it looks the heater blower and ignition switch work together? Or one runs off the other? And my battery terminals are clean, treated with terminal protector. Same with all relays, clean, protected, same at starter, both terminals clean, free of corrosion, protected with spray on anti-corrosion stuff. Clutch interlock switch has been cut and spliced together to bypass it. Engine temp or outside temp hasnt had an effect on this problem. This no start deal has not been a recurring problem, its just started this weekend.

So, I'm leaning towards the ign switch. What do yall think? I hope I've not confused anyone with all my run on sentances. If it is the ign switch, is it expensive? TIA. Bill

 

[bgilbert]

?? Well 29 views, no replies, and done moved me to the middle of the second page... I dont like just 'parts changing', its more like guessing. Anyone have any ideas on my no start condition? Bill

 

[cerberusiam]

The ignition switch supplies power to the accesories in the truck when switched on. In start mode the swith locks out accessories. It is not uncommon when a lot of wear is present for the switch to not recenter correctly so the accesories work. Is it just the blower fan that doesn't work or do you lose radio and wipers also?



The no start could be the contacts in the switch just not getting it done but since the relay is clicking I don't think so. The relays are notorious for being quirky on the Dodges so it could be that. Generally if the relay clicks its low battery or a bad relay. The other things that could effect starting are the fusible links on the driver side fenderwell. If you have them and they have ever been replaced or wired around they can cause weird problems. A battery with a floating plate can cause the same symptoms also. Check your body to battery ground and make sure it is good and make sure the engine to cab ground wire is good also.



A remote starter switch is handy with problems like this. When it doesn't start clip a lead to the battery and one to the starter stud that comes from the relay and see if it will spin the motor and start. That will rule out the battery and maybe ignition switch if all works right. Good luck.

 

[bgilbert]

[Is it just the blower fan that doesn't work or do you lose radio and wipers also?] I've never lost the radio or wipers, only the blower fan on occasion. I've been 60 mph down the road and relized i had no blower, so i would throw it in nuetral, turn key off, and fire it back up, until I got the blower to work again. Had a charged battery 13+volts and had same problem. So... ? Bill

 

[cerberusiam]

Fan switchs are another weak link. I have had them go bad, intermit and generally annoy me. Fan motor also could have bad windings that could cause internittent problems. The next time it quits run 12 volts to the fan wire on the firewall and see if it will run. That would eliminate fan and point to either fan switch or ignition switch. You can use remote starter switch for that also.



Have I mentioned how handy remote starter switchs are? They are so handy they dissappear out of my vehicles at regular intervals. Usually when my kids are working on their jalopies.

 

[bgilbert]

TTT. Truck still no start, Phillip, other electrical guru's? Anymore ideas? I'm in the process of removing the ignition switch, but I can't figure out how to remove the rod (from the ignition lock cylinder) to the ign switch itself?... . and boy was it fun removing the two small screws that retain the switch to the steering column. So now the switch is loose, but has the rod attached to it. Do I need to dig into the steering wheel, remove the wheel, turn switch etc to get to the lock cylinder end of the rod? Or does the rod disconnect at the ignition switch? TIA, Bill

 

[ltstauffer]

I'm betting it is the switch. My '93 pulled some of the same tricks 'cept it was 95 degrees so I didn't have the air OR couldn't put the windows down! I was starting to ferment by the time I got to the dealership! Reasonable cost though, can't remember exactly how much.

 

[dpuckett]

bgilbert-

You say this happened twice when you came out from the bar? Then maybe you should just stay away for a while.



Seems like ignition switch was ~$15 from Napa a few years ago for my 93; shouldnt be more than $30 by now.



Daniel

 

[bgilbert]

And get this, my 91 is in the garage, with the no start 89 parked right behind the garage door. Cant move it to get the 91 out. So I've been driving the ole 78 power wagon. Runs great but has that junk fulltime front end were the ball joints/wheel bearings, tie rod ends, loose steering shaft at the box, (typical 20+yrold Dodge truck front end problems), makes it feel like the front wheels/tires are about to fly off at 65mph. Tax check will be here Fri, so I'll buy a new ignition switch and hopefully thats the cure. . Bill

 

[ETOBICOKE]

No Start

Sounds like your ignition switch is in bad shape. Dodge ignition swithces have extra contacts for the blower and power windows that closes only in the run position. This is an entirely seperate circuit from the starter and ignition and has it's own feed from the battery. The other possible problem might be the starter relay, Dodge uses an intermediate relay between the starter switch and starter solinoid, it's located on the driver's side fender just ahead of the hood hinge, on my truck (92) there are three of these relays mounted in a row the left is the AC clutch, the center the starter and the right the auto shut down (alternator). You can try swapping them around. If you need to move your truck, you can also crawl under and jump the starter solinoid with an old screwdriver although this is a bit dicey, it will get you started provided the starter is working properly. Would be best to have someone you trust stepping on the brake pedal if you try this.



Neil

 

[RamAZ]

The same thing happened to me late last week. It was not the ignition switch. I could turn the switch and hear the fuel solenoid kick in but not turn over at all. The battery is new and it turned out to be the starter, I tried to short across the positive terminal on the starter to the post on the solenoid and no go. Took a small hammer and tapped the solenoid while buddy was turning the key and it fired up. Since I was leaving town last Friday I got a rebuilt from NAPA and installed. Really turns over now even with the grid heaters on.



I do have a set of Larry B's 24 volt contacts and plunger but was in a real bind on getting out of town so I went the already rebuilt way. I guess I will save them for those road side emergencies.



Seems like every time I get ready to go out of town something happens a couple of days before I'm ready to go. Better than being broke on the side of the road though. Christmas time was the prime lever on lift pimp was leaking oil really bad.



Check the solenoid on starter.



Jim

 

[JDMills]

Bill

There is a way to test the Ignition switch according to the shop manual which has a benifit of engaging the starter motor from the drivers seat. . I doubt I would be 'man enough' to jump the contacts on the starter motor, while under the truck. Not sure how to pass along the information in the manual so that it makes sense. but here it goes:

As I understand it the starter relay, ignition switch, and starter soleniod can all be tested by using a jumper wire on the RELAY.

I even used a test light, with success as the probe fits into the different slots, and lights up when I have a connection. I had a no start, no crank, no noise this past summer. . it went away so I never figured out what the problem was. Actually the truck never turned over when I tested the relay until I turned the ignition switch. . so may be that is my problem also never the less, the test is as folllows:



Place gear selector in nertral, or park. Set parking Brake. Do not remove relay connecter.

RELAY: --------- (bottom side up)

| B |

| |

|Sol |

| |

|Ig G |

---------





Any way the shop manual says to test the Solenoid use a heavy jumper wire between "B" and "Sol"

if starter cranks, solenoid is good.



Relay test: check for battery voltage at "B" and "G" with a test lamp.

connect Jumper wire between "Ig" and "B" if starter cranks relay is good.



however if it does not, then put an additional jumper wire between "G" and a ground. if it cranks, relay is good, but neutral safty swich or transmission linkage is out of adjustment. if it does not then relay is bad. after all this checks out, then it is said to be trouble with the ignition switch.



All of which did not isolate the problem for me, but may be it will help some one else.



Jason

 

[JDMills]

Woops, guess my relay drawing did not work out. Never was much of an artist anyway... Just have to try again:



----------

B |

|

Sol |

|

Ig G|

---------

if some one needs more information, I think I can find out the colors of the wires for each circut. Hope this "sketch" works better

J

 

[DKasper]

I had a no-start condition on my '93 D350 auto last year. It turned out that the transmission linkage had become a bit sloppy and contact was not being made with the switch on the transmission that determined what position the shift lever was in -- park or neutral. After I adjusted the linkage so it was tight again, everything worked fine.



That doesn't help the guys with the manual trans, but it's worth a check on the autos. . .



Dave

 

[bgilbert]

UPDATE

Thanks for all who tried to help. Tired JDMills' troubleshoot advise, but I didnt read it correct, put the 14 guage jumper wire in B and G!! Ouch! So I figured my jumper wire was too small. And didnt go any further with that advise. Put new ignition switch ($23 from dealer) in, nothing, no crank. Swap starter relays outta the 91 still same thing in the 89, no start. The relay from the 89 works in the 91, so I now know the relay is good. So now I'm looking at the starter. Get down under the truck with a ball pen hammer and tap the front of the starter a few times. Get back in the truck and ZOOM, it fires back to life. So I guess I'm looking at getting this one rebuilt. Can the brushes, contacts and plunger? be replaced my me at home or does it take special tools? My local starter alt shops I'm told dont do a very good job. I'd like to wait on buying a new or rebuilt starter for when I upgrade my transmission to a BIGGER transmission, where I will need a different starter anyways. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bill

 

[Philip]

There should be a relay in your starter system. It should be located by the drivers side hood hinge. Pull the relay and see if you have power on one terminal when the switch is in the start position. Terminal C is the ingition switch feed wire.



Wire cavity #1 is the output for the starter relay off of the ignition. See if it give a solid 12 volts while in the start mode.



These directions are in my 93 manual. The 89 might be different. I am not sure.



With you hitting the outside of the starter case and it started working. I would bet you have a bad segment on the armature. Or the brushes are down to nothing and the brush holders are riding on the armature.





If you drive the 91 to Indy sat. Pull the starter off the 89 and we can open it and take a peak inside.

 

[Little John]

Bill,
If you have any mechanical skills, and basic tools, you can do the rebuild. Why waste time and money taking it to a shop when you can get the parts and spend a few hours in your garage.