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illflem
- Thread starter bramage
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... and a few of the adults... 
Moderating/system/site administration are dirty and relatively thankless jobs...
Perhaps one of the most difficult, yet absolutely most ESSENTIAL requirements, is the need for ABSOLUTE equality and integrity in dealing with individuals and issues, regardless of whether the individual is a total newby/stranger, or one of the oldest and most respected members and your best friend!
Virtually EVERY problem *I* have had on ANY board, including THIS one, has centered on the inability and failure of folks in control TO control, then allow issues to get out of hand, then to next deal inequitably with an issue that is WAY out of hand.
I can deal quite easily with those who choose to attack me personally, rather than deal with ISSUES I might raise - what I CAN'T deal with, is moderators who stack the deck against me and take sides on issues where THEY should remain impartial and equitable.
We have had sufficient evidence of the sad end effect of poor moderating and "crowd control" - I can only hope we LEARN from those sad and unnecessary experiences...
Perhaps one of the most difficult, yet absolutely most ESSENTIAL requirements, is the need for ABSOLUTE equality and integrity in dealing with individuals and issues, regardless of whether the individual is a total newby/stranger, or one of the oldest and most respected members and your best friend!
Virtually EVERY problem *I* have had on ANY board, including THIS one, has centered on the inability and failure of folks in control TO control, then allow issues to get out of hand, then to next deal inequitably with an issue that is WAY out of hand.
I can deal quite easily with those who choose to attack me personally, rather than deal with ISSUES I might raise - what I CAN'T deal with, is moderators who stack the deck against me and take sides on issues where THEY should remain impartial and equitable.
We have had sufficient evidence of the sad end effect of poor moderating and "crowd control" - I can only hope we LEARN from those sad and unnecessary experiences...
Bill's experience and advice are missed for sure. Knowing what little I do about what happened I still feel the situation was handled poorly.
Sometimes people get full of themselves and make things personal.
Sometimes it's best to realize that you just don't like someone (and believe it or not they may not like you) and just ignore them.
For the most part this seems to me to be a self moderating site.
Mike
P. S. My wife is a moderator for a major rock band. I have seen the time and effort that moderators put into their sites. For the most part it's a thankless job but she enjoys it.
Sometimes people get full of themselves and make things personal.
Sometimes it's best to realize that you just don't like someone (and believe it or not they may not like you) and just ignore them.
For the most part this seems to me to be a self moderating site.
Mike
P. S. My wife is a moderator for a major rock band. I have seen the time and effort that moderators put into their sites. For the most part it's a thankless job but she enjoys it.
"Sometimes it's best to realize that you just don't like someone (and believe it or not they may not like you) and just ignore them.
For the most part this seems to me to be a self moderating site. "
Maybe it's a good idea to openly discuss viewpoints concerning moderating - it rarely comes up unless there's a problem.
First, human nature being what it is, you are correct, there will always be individuals you dislike in groups like this, as well as those who dislike you - and that's OK - as long as they do as you suggest and simply avoid you and you them.
Problems arise when some individuals refuse to leave it at that and begin stalking you in various threads, never missing an opportunity to take potshots at you at the personal level, That's where the moderators need to be alert, impartial, and step in to head that stuff off - a simple private message behind the scenes to the offender SHOULD be enough and appropriate - if not, stronger measures are within a moderators power.
Second, even if individual users aren't smart enough to keep personalities separate from ISSUES, moderators SHOULD be - and that's a primary function of moderating to keep subjects on track, and personal references at a minimum - at least that's how *I* see it!
Thirdly, you either moderate a group, or you don't - these ARE moderated groups, unlike the shambles and anarchy of Usenet - and it's pretty obvious from some rather significant past failures amd lost members that constant attention and improvement ARE necessary if further embarrassment and losses are to be prevented.
For the most part this seems to me to be a self moderating site. "
Maybe it's a good idea to openly discuss viewpoints concerning moderating - it rarely comes up unless there's a problem.
First, human nature being what it is, you are correct, there will always be individuals you dislike in groups like this, as well as those who dislike you - and that's OK - as long as they do as you suggest and simply avoid you and you them.
Problems arise when some individuals refuse to leave it at that and begin stalking you in various threads, never missing an opportunity to take potshots at you at the personal level, That's where the moderators need to be alert, impartial, and step in to head that stuff off - a simple private message behind the scenes to the offender SHOULD be enough and appropriate - if not, stronger measures are within a moderators power.
Second, even if individual users aren't smart enough to keep personalities separate from ISSUES, moderators SHOULD be - and that's a primary function of moderating to keep subjects on track, and personal references at a minimum - at least that's how *I* see it!
Thirdly, you either moderate a group, or you don't - these ARE moderated groups, unlike the shambles and anarchy of Usenet - and it's pretty obvious from some rather significant past failures amd lost members that constant attention and improvement ARE necessary if further embarrassment and losses are to be prevented.
Joseph Donnelly
TDR MEMBER
There are crucial points that were not disseminated. I can't tell you more, but I believe if you knew "the rest of the story" you would agree with the outcome.
*I* don't disagree with the outcome now - in fact, I have reason to welcome it, not because I disliked the individual involved, but because based upon a few personal experiences, came to feel that basic functions of a moderator were NOT being handled properly - and yes, "behind the scenes" messages were sent/received that accomplished absolutely nothing. When the existing situation became intolerable in my view, I left for a time as others have when conditions get out of hand and turn bitterly personal - it was primarily due to the change in moderating staff that I chose to return - perhaps the board was better off with the previous situation - various members will just have to make up their own minds on that score...
This isn't intended by me to be ANY sort of a bashing attack - Bill was UNDOUBTEDLY a great and wonderful member, with LOTS more to offer here than most members, including ME - it's just *my* view that proper and impartial moderating wasn't one of them!
Sorry if my comments offend anyone - that is not my intent in any way - just my personal view...
This isn't intended by me to be ANY sort of a bashing attack - Bill was UNDOUBTEDLY a great and wonderful member, with LOTS more to offer here than most members, including ME - it's just *my* view that proper and impartial moderating wasn't one of them!
Sorry if my comments offend anyone - that is not my intent in any way - just my personal view...
I know a Little about it. I never talked to bill but did read some post he did on nwbombers and I kinda took it that he knew he was wrong. If he changed some guys post to make that guy to appear to be a flaming ? wellI just think it is funny as hell. I mean Im sure it wasnt funny when it happened but looking back on it, its a riot! I have gotten mad and done stuff i regret and I think bill just blew a gasket. I think cooler heads should prevail and Bill should come back!
Once in another Lifetime I was the Manager of a Pizza Place. We showed all the football games. That year the saints had started out 8-0 and the Falcons 0-8. Me and my Son actually went and saw the Saints 9th game that they lost to Chicago, That is when I started to get mad everyweek after that the saints would loose and the Falcos would win and I would have to hear it because I worked all Day at the Pizza Place on Sunday. We get to week 16 and I have all the Giants fans ready for their Game butthe place is full of the Falcons fans who have a minute to play. The Falcons are about to loose to the Packers and I am watching it. The Falcons block a Punt and the place goes wild and some of these guys are hollering who Dat and all kinds of stuff.
I snap, MY Face gets Red and hot. I go in the office and shut off the Falcons Game and Put on the Giants. KABOOM The restaurant goes nuts. People are cussing me and I tell them to get the F**k out. People are throwing Food Its a riot and to make it worse the network jumps from the Giants Game to the Falcons and shows their winning touchdown to Rison. All those people walked out the place that day and we lost hundreds off dollars
The Owner of course got called and later that night came by and he was like what the hell happened in here today? I told him, I just snapped. It wasnt a good feeling and I'm glad I didnt have a gun on me. That story is still told by so many people that used to go there its famous. I should have been fired.
Sometimes people just snap and do stuff I still hear about the day I cut those tvs off and its funny to hear others tell the story with their own slant.
I think now that its over we look back at it and Laugh and let it go and bring ole Bill back.
Whoevers post got messed up should jump in and say that now they think its funny and forgive and forget!
People still hide the remote control from ME! GEAUX SAINTS AND GEAUX TIGAS
Once in another Lifetime I was the Manager of a Pizza Place. We showed all the football games. That year the saints had started out 8-0 and the Falcons 0-8. Me and my Son actually went and saw the Saints 9th game that they lost to Chicago, That is when I started to get mad everyweek after that the saints would loose and the Falcos would win and I would have to hear it because I worked all Day at the Pizza Place on Sunday. We get to week 16 and I have all the Giants fans ready for their Game butthe place is full of the Falcons fans who have a minute to play. The Falcons are about to loose to the Packers and I am watching it. The Falcons block a Punt and the place goes wild and some of these guys are hollering who Dat and all kinds of stuff.
I snap, MY Face gets Red and hot. I go in the office and shut off the Falcons Game and Put on the Giants. KABOOM The restaurant goes nuts. People are cussing me and I tell them to get the F**k out. People are throwing Food Its a riot and to make it worse the network jumps from the Giants Game to the Falcons and shows their winning touchdown to Rison. All those people walked out the place that day and we lost hundreds off dollars
The Owner of course got called and later that night came by and he was like what the hell happened in here today? I told him, I just snapped. It wasnt a good feeling and I'm glad I didnt have a gun on me. That story is still told by so many people that used to go there its famous. I should have been fired.
Sometimes people just snap and do stuff I still hear about the day I cut those tvs off and its funny to hear others tell the story with their own slant.
I think now that its over we look back at it and Laugh and let it go and bring ole Bill back.
Whoevers post got messed up should jump in and say that now they think its funny and forgive and forget!
People still hide the remote control from ME! GEAUX SAINTS AND GEAUX TIGAS
"I don't disagree with anything being said here. What I meant about 'self moderating' was that the overwhelming majority of our members are mature adults and conduct themselves accordingly. "
Absolutely true - and for the "mature adults", aggressive moderating is NOT needed - but it's invariably the several percent who are NOT "mature adults" who screw it up for the rest!
As JP above points out, sometimes things just get outta hand - a few aggitators get someones blood boiling, and reason flies out the window. Sure, you may regret it in a few minute or days - but words and thoughts expressed in anger are VERY difficult to take back and forget - which makes it all the more important to STOP them from happening in the first place - and THAT'S where aggressive, equitable and alert moderating becomes most important.
No site such as this benefits from the loss of it's knowledge base - and Bill was certainly one of those for this group - regardless of my own personal views concerning his moderating skills, *I* would be one of the first to ask him to return as a member if he chooses, and stand in line to welcome him if he does.
Absolutely true - and for the "mature adults", aggressive moderating is NOT needed - but it's invariably the several percent who are NOT "mature adults" who screw it up for the rest!
As JP above points out, sometimes things just get outta hand - a few aggitators get someones blood boiling, and reason flies out the window. Sure, you may regret it in a few minute or days - but words and thoughts expressed in anger are VERY difficult to take back and forget - which makes it all the more important to STOP them from happening in the first place - and THAT'S where aggressive, equitable and alert moderating becomes most important.
No site such as this benefits from the loss of it's knowledge base - and Bill was certainly one of those for this group - regardless of my own personal views concerning his moderating skills, *I* would be one of the first to ask him to return as a member if he chooses, and stand in line to welcome him if he does.
B
Blue2002
Guest
I agree with Gary's comments "No site such as this benefits from the loss of it's knowledge base - and Bill was certainly one of those for this group - regardless of my own personal views concerning his moderating skills, *I* would be one of the first to ask him to return as a member if he chooses, and stand in line to welcome him if he does. "
Ever notice how few of the 'old timers' still post at all?
The ones we have the most to learn from must just tire of the BS,
and quit posting.
The ones we have the most to learn from must just tire of the BS,
and quit posting.
WELL, after responding to the 20th "do I need guages", or "why do my lights dim when I first start my truck on a cold morning", a fella DOES sorta tire a bit...
Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q
WELL, after responding to the 20th "do I need guages", or "why do my lights dim when I first start my truck on a cold morning", a fella DOES sorta tire a bit...
I hear ya.
I don't do much here other than browse now. I have a few comments,, but things I've llearned onhow to make HP can't be completely general knowledge, and aren't understood by most,, so I just lay back and see people put on boost elbows,, install EZ, and replace Lift Pumps.
Where I like to be is putting a Fire Ring job, a Cam, some New EDM's, Twin Turbo's, Ladder Bars,, experimenting with Co2, NOS, Water/Meth, Trans Brakes, Aftermarket Tachs, And alot of things I can't mention.
This place is a very good source for info, and much of it is in the Archive. Alot of the "old Timers" are just that Also,, "Old Tymers",, It takes alot of research, and money to stay on top of the game.
Another thing is, bigger companies take over alot of research,, throwing money at developing new products before we get a chance to see the new style vehicle.
Example,,, 24V's,, The 24V came out in '98. 5 but we didn't see a 100+HP box untill mid '99,, and the DRAG Comp didn't come out until '01. We were seeing 700HP on 24V's in '03, and that was a break through, thanks to research and money invested from the late Nowel Thomas.
Now, People like Bully Dog, QuadZilla, and others have allready taken an '03 ISB-e over 700RWHP, twin turbo,,, etc. Before we even saw an '03 !
It's becoming a more industrialized market,, and not too much is left to grassroots engineering anymore.
Merrick
Yah,, Co2,, and running numbers that makes a OE '98 truck's dash "out of range" or obsolete.
http://www.designengineering.com/products.html
Merrick
http://www.designengineering.com/products.html
Merrick
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
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