I'm done w/ biodiesel..........

[Paddy McMahon]

The only source for B99 w/ in 45 miles is charging six bucks a gallon. I simply can't afford to subsidize the "right thing to do" anymore. I stopped and filled up with $4. 40/gallon #2 drove home and took the biodiesel sticker off my bumper. I'd consider brewing my own fuel, but my living situation prevents me from pursuing this. Anyway it was fun while it lasted and my exhaust probably made a lot of pedestrians crave fried food.

 

[PRout]

Im with you on this one. . The local place down here in Brentwood jacked their prices to 5. 39 that I saw and probably peaked higher that I didnt see.

I posted in their forum, that as much as I would love to continue to use b99 its not worth it while buying 90 gallons at a time when the 76 statioon by LAX sells ulsd for 4. 15 (and lowering). I was told I was missing the whole point, arabs, fuel independence, green compliance, etc. . Im sort of the bad guy when I save over 100. 00 per fill up by going with big oil, because most of the people on the site stated they gladly pay that extra price for the satisfaction they feel and the whole idea is promoting the production and use of biodiesel.

I asked if the owner really wanted to promote the use of biofuels, then why does he charge 25% more than dino fuel?

Im just crossing my fingers and hoping more competition "crops" up to "help" bring the bio market in check.

It makes more sense to put the r&d work into finding better ways of managing biofuels, than putting some of these rediculous degrading, crippling, compromise of reliability emission deamons on state of the art machines that would be so much better all the way around substituting biofuels for the silly epa "handcuffs".

 

[Paddy McMahon]

Amen to the competition/free enterprise scenario. I truly believe the vendors know they can get away with price gouging because there is someone out there in a diesel Jetta who could care less about the extra couple of bucks it takes to "fill 'er up". Until people are given an alternative souce or an insight as to the actual cost the vendors are paying for bulk biodiesel the price gouging will continue.

 

[KKohagen]

When the price oifference is only $0. 20-$0. 25 a gallon between #2 and the higher priced Bio, I choose Bio. This translates into ~$7-$10 per tank. When the difference is ~$1. 00 that is saving me 25-30 per tank by using #2. Combine slightly higher fuel mileage on #2 and that difference between Bio and #2 gets even higher.
Keep the difference between Bio and #2 closer together and I will continue to support. Make the difference large @ these elevated prices and #2 to the rescue.
Simple supply and demand supply of #2 has gone up and the demand has leveled off or dropped. Combine that with the price of crude down.
The difference every fill up makes it so I can eat out in a restaurant several times a week versus not being able to afford it and still drive my truck.

 

[EDankievitch]

This year screwed everyone, the speculator investors have looted this country every way they can. The question is how do we remove them? How do we stop the looting of the greatest country in the world? Thts the question we have to solve, then gas will be $1. 00 a gallon. Time to take back what is ours! Our natral resorces!

 

[TMax]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject but what do speculators have to do with the price of oil? I know they purchase futures but is it not supply that actually drives the prices? I think capitalism is based on speculators doing their thing... isn't it? I am in real estate and we speculate all the time. So if someone said "get the speculators out of real estate" I'd think that it would ruin the market... why would I invest my dollars in it if I didn't think it would go up? I just think we need to use the resources God has plessed us with and quit blaming it on the speculators. Drill here and drill now then watch the price of oil.

 

[cj hall]

the problem with trying to judge the two is that they are different



one is real the other is a product not worth anything inless you want it.



if you want to buy real estate and speculate that the price will go up then thats great. this takes years right?



the price of oil is based on next month sept 08 is over and we are in to oct 08

when you buy oil futures you only need 6% down to buy this make it easy to hedge your bet. and you can hold it for one day and then sell it.

1,000 barrels of oil at 125. 00 dollars this costs 125,000. 00

you need 7,500 dollars to hold that till delivery.



sell it the next day at 145. 00 and you just made 20,000 dollars 5 times in a week and you made 100,000 sure it's extream but and a zero or two behind those numbers and this looks pretty good.



you never had it or anything its still in the ground.



supply and demand works but greed enters the problem and as the USA becomes a poor country as we have set most of our money to ?????? China and the middle east supply and demand has nothing to do with it.



we cut back on driving and the price goes up a storm that shuts down a oil field in texas prices go up a small fire in Billings at Exxon the price goes up.



Go ahead put some one different in the White House I bet you the price will go up.



make the speculators pay for what they bought the day they bought it and watch the price drop.



The reason land will hold its worth is they dont make it any more, oil is not in short supply it just harder to find.

 

[MAllen1]

I'm thinking about getting my own unit and running my own bio. My friend, who I buy from, brews his own and says that time invested and running around to get used oil (which he says is harder than one thinks) runs him 3-3. 25 a gallon when all costs are figured.

 

[brods]

Right thing??

As already pointed out, bio has less energy per gallon and gets less mpg so you have to buy more of it. There are bio producers who are shipping crappy product (wonder why the ASTM specs keep getting more and more stringent?). We are all subsidizing bio with tax incentives and to top it off bio still costs more at the pump! Bio is more hygroscopic than dino, meaning it wants to absorb water out of the atmosphere. Water is bad for our fuel systems. Bio has a shorter shelf life than dino. People are starving while we make fuel out of food. Fuel crops competing with food crops cause the price of food to go up for everyone! So... . just how the heck is buying biofuels the “right thing” to do???



This is all pretty much a sad joke since our demand for fuel is so enormous current biofuels can’t even make a dent in our need for dino oil. Yet even with the minuscule amounts of current biofuel implementation they have already harmed all of us in the pocketbook wether you buy them or not!



We all need to clear our heads of the green warm and fuzzy hype and think clearly. Fuel needs to be made out of waste products or anything that does not compete with food crops for land, water or resources. Fuel needs to meet strict specs and those who deceptively sell out of spec product need to be punished severely enough so that think twice before doing it again. Bio fuel needs to be competitive with dino based fuels without tons of subsidizing. Yes subsidizing may be needed for startup, so we (our government) need to selectively subsidize alternative energy sources based on their net positive impact on society and after taking into account the far ranging effects of their widespread implementation.



Pay extra for bio if you want, but as for it being the “right” thing to do... ..... that is very debatable. :-{}



End of rant.



Kudos to you guys making your own fuel from WVO.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

the problem with trying to judge the two is that they are different



one is real the other is a product not worth anything inless you want it.



if you want to buy real estate and speculate that the price will go up then thats great. this takes years right?



the price of oil is based on next month sept 08 is over and we are in to oct 08

when you buy oil futures you only need 6% down to buy this make it easy to hedge your bet. and you can hold it for one day and then sell it.

1,000 barrels of oil at 125. 00 dollars this costs 125,000. 00

you need 7,500 dollars to hold that till delivery.



sell it the next day at 145. 00 and you just made 20,000 dollars 5 times in a week and you made 100,000 sure it's extream but and a zero or two behind those numbers and this looks pretty good.



you never had it or anything its still in the ground.



supply and demand works but greed enters the problem and as the USA becomes a poor country as we have set most of our money to ?????? China and the middle east supply and demand has nothing to do with it.



we cut back on driving and the price goes up a storm that shuts down a oil field in texas prices go up a small fire in Billings at Exxon the price goes up.



Go ahead put some one different in the White House I bet you the price will go up.



make the speculators pay for what they bought the day they bought it and watch the price drop.



The reason land will hold its worth is they dont make it any more, oil is not in short supply it just harder to find.

EXACTLY, CJ - you summed it up perfectly!



For the guys and groups involved in serious investing, it's great, and a gold mine - for the REST of us, it's legal mugging and robbery that allows well-heeled investors to radically and ARTIFICIALLY run up the cost of living for the vast majority of the working class in this country - and once we all are economically FORCED to "adjust" our lifestyles by way of smaller cars, bicycles and smaller houses - we become just like like OTHER 3rd world countries!



Yeah, the price of energy probably WILL settle a bit lower, and the producers will THEN be making the same profit for *1* gallon of fuel they USED to make on *10* gallons - and by then, many of us will be driving Yugo class vehicles and riding bicycles to our low pay jobs, just like many in Asia and Europe are doing today.



But not the oil producers, refiners, and trader/speculators - THEY will still be jet-setting to and from their various domestic and foreign villas up on ritzy hillsides, looking down on the poorer classes THEY helped to create...



Yeah, good business for THEM, assisted by commodities traders/speculators - but what about the REST of our society?