Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Important Lp Info!!!

[Sticks]

My truck went to the dealer today to try to solve the 0216 code (injection pump timing error) with no "check engine" light.



I have been having this problem with it for about a month now, and thought it may have been related to the Edge EZ that I had. My fuel pressure every time I checked it at each fill up (sometimes before I filled and after) my pressures were always 12-13 psi at idle, and 10-11 at 2000rpm (no load, I do not have the ability to check it while driving).



Turns out that my LP FAILED the new DC fuel pump test!!! My pressure was what we considered good, but the volume/amount of flow was not. Who knows how long this went on.



The dealer said that they did do a pressure test on the injection pump after the LP change, and it is "Within specs" what ever that means.



This may raise a serious question... Are our gauges accurate enough, or do we need to find a flow gauge?



BTW - I did not have to answer any questions that I did not want to answer... all covered under warranty The ground work has been laid if the injection pump eats itself now.

 

[mgoncalves]

Hmmm, I wonder if the new test, tests the volume that is needed under full load instead of pressure with no load? That would make the most sense.



OTOH, Sticks you gotta see the "Garden Hose" mod that you helped map out, it works great.



I would be nervous of your injection pump. I don't think having good pressure now, can undo the damage that caused the timing solenoid to act up. At least you know you will be OK warranty wise if it still shells out on you. You've got to get a fuel pressure gauge, it's the best insurance/warranty you can get.



Matt

 

[Bob4x4]

The volume test is performed with the engine off.



Bob

 

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Bob4x4

The volume test is performed with the engine off.



Bob

:--) This is off OMG. Then you add a box and injectors and WOT

 

[dresslered]

I do not have the ability to check it while driving

Sorry, Sticks. The pressure test is meaningless at no load unless you have an extremely bad lift pump. The only true test (other than a flow test) is by measuring the pressure at WOT up a hill. My original Lift Pump could idle at over 12-psi but I could drop it down to 1-psi under the above conditions. My new pump of 20,000 miles will not drop below 9-psi. Connect your pressure gauge so that you can monitor it from the cab.

 

[jrandol]

OTOH, Sticks you gotta see the "Garden Hose" mod that you helped map out, it works great.







Yeah Sticks, you gotta see the "garden hose" mod, its awesome!!! Need to get the digital camera out, got home to late tonight to photograph it, maybe tommorrow.

 

[mgoncalves]

Originally posted by Bob4x4

The volume test is performed with the engine off.



Bob

What does that have to do with this?



They are testing the lift pump, not the engine



Matt

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by dresslered

Sorry, Sticks. The pressure test is meaningless at no load unless you have an extremely bad lift pump. The only true test (other than a flow test) is by measuring the pressure at WOT up a hill. My original Lift Pump could idle at over 12-psi but I could drop it down to 1-psi under the above conditions. My new pump of 20,000 miles will not drop below 9-psi. Connect your pressure gauge so that you can monitor it from the cab.

I looked around for a week to find a gauge with a hose long enough to do this, and could not. I am lucky to get the darn thing as high as the battery. I guess it is just a misconception on my part that you could check the health of your LP sitting in the drive. I just need to bite the bullet and cough up the $300 and change for a full gauge kit. That's only a weeks salary.

Originally posted by jrandol and mgoncalves

OTOH, Sticks you gotta see the "Garden Hose" mod that you helped map out, it works great.







Yeah Sticks, you gotta see the "garden hose" mod, its awesome!!! Need to get the digital camera out, got home to late tonight to photograph it, maybe tommorrow.

Garden hose?!?! I am afraid to ask what is running through everyones mind at that one. NO IT'S NOT A GREEN HOSE!



Maybe I can join you guys for the next one. I wanna drive Matt's HO with those injectors (gently, darn clutch).

 

[jrandol]

Originally posted by sticks

I looked around for a week to find a gauge with a hose long enough to do this, and could not. I am lucky to get the darn thing as high as the battery. I guess it is just a misconception on my part that you could check the health of your LP sitting in the drive. I just need to bite the bullet and cough up the $300 and change for a full gauge kit. That's only a weeks salary.







Garden hose?!?! I am afraid to ask what is running through everyones mind at that one. NO IT'S NOT A GREEN HOSE!



Maybe I can join you guys for the next one. I wanna drive Matt's HO with those injectors (gently, darn clutch).

Sticks, the garden hose is kinda joke. You gotta see the line, 1/2" ID is HUGE on the outside!!! We were working on it in my garage and set it next to my actual garden hose, it was bigger than the Garden Hose!! One goof I made is not finding out what color the hose would be we ordered, its red. Oh well, I am real pleased with the job, it came out pretty darn professional looking if I do say so myself!!

 

[Bob4x4]

What does that have to do with this?



They are testing the lift pump, not the engine



Matt

The engine is not run during the volume test. It is a timed test run under no load with the fuel line open into a container. This is how a volume test is run per cummins for this application. If the spec is met the pump is to be considered ok by Cummins. This is not a Dodge test it is from Cummins.



Bob

 

[krs]

Sticks,



"I just need to bite the bullet and cough up the $300 and change for a full gauge kit. "



Huh? There's no need for that kind of change. You can get a decent mechanical gauge for under $20. and route a line into your cab for the cost of a few fittings and hose. You could even use copper if diesel in the cab is a concern though it'd probably make enough racket to bug you. I've got an electric with two senders and a mechanical under the hood without spending much over $100.

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by KRS

Huh? There's no need for that kind of change. You can get a decent mechanical gauge for under $20. and route a line into your cab for the cost of a few fittings and hose. You could even use copper if diesel in the cab is a concern though it'd probably make enough racket to bug you. I've got an electric with two senders and a mechanical under the hood without spending much over $100. [/B]

Well I am figuring 75 for the fuel pressure and boost, and 150 for the EGT. I would want to get all three at once. I am going to be using a dash pod, and it would look kind of stupid having a three seater and only one getting used. If I only get one, it will be a LOOOOOONG time before I get round to another.

 

[krs]

Oh. OK.



You've got an unusual dealer at least. I doubt that many of them would change a pump on their own initiative like yours did. The one I've been to would have kepy the info about a flow test secret and deny all knowledge of it if I asked.

 

[Sticks]

Originally posted by KRS

Oh. OK.



You've got an unusual dealer at least. I doubt that many of them would change a pump on their own initiative like yours did. The one I've been to would have kepy the info about a flow test secret and deny all knowledge of it if I asked.

I pointedly asked them about it. If they would have denied it, I would have handed them the TSB and asked them again.



For all the good it did. I knew I probably jumped the gun when I put my replacement EZ and the AFE back on. That damn 0216 code is back.



Looks like I take it all back off and make another appointment to go back in a couple of weeks. I want to give the operational data a chance to overwrite itself. Hopefully it will implode completely by then and there will be no in depth checking. Just a "Yup, your VP is fried. "



Well, the extra 60HP was fun for the 14 miles I got to drive it.

 

[mgoncalves]

Originally posted by Bob4x4

What does that have to do with this?



They are testing the lift pump, not the engine



Matt

The engine is not run during the volume test. It is a timed test run under no load with the fuel line open into a container. This is how a volume test is run per cummins for this application. If the spec is met the pump is to be considered ok by Cummins. This is not a Dodge test it is from Cummins.



Bob

Exactly. Why would the engine need to be running to check the volume of the lift pump? By checking the actual vloume of fuel that the pump is capable of producing, there is no need to put a load on the engine like we do when just checking the pressure. I'm sure they (Bosch) can tell you exactly how much fuel (volume) needs to pass through the injection pump at full load to keep everything lubricated.



Not trying to argue, just not sure why you stated that the test was done with the engine off, and how that is significant.



Matt

 

[mgoncalves]

By the way,

Sticks, you can come drive my truck anytime and even crank up the comp, the clutch seems to be holding so far. Just yesterday I found out that wet streets and 5x5 on the comp don't mix so well



Matt