injection pump timing

[dustoff]

i called the closest cummins service department this morning to ask about getting the injection pump timing checked. i was told that unless someone had tampered with or taken it off that it was set and the timing never changed and therefore did not need checking. . does the timing never need checking?? thanks

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'94 2500,4x4,SLT,auto,
3. 54,Prime-Loc,TST #6/230, 75,000 miles

 

[BCFAST]

Dustoff, that's the same crapolla I always got from Cummins Southeastern. If youre not interrested in taking my money just say so, dont lie to me!! I found a Bosch-authorized diesel shop to do the work... wont go back to Cummins... theyre as bad as DC!

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97 2500 CC 4x4 3. 54 5spd, #12 plate, 4inch open exhaust, 235/85 Michelins, PrimeLoc, Red Tops

 

[illflem]

dustoff,if your timing has never been checked or you want to change it then it needs to be done. Every 12 valve should have it's timing checked with low miles,they are seldom correct from the factory. The timing won't change unless the timing gear slips on it's shaft,which does happen,but when it does slip it usually moves so much that the engine runs poorly. Hold a lollipop in front of that service dude's face next time, sounds like thats about his level.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(Play truck)95 3500,5 speed,Driftwood,Banks&Phscotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(work truck)

 

[PSInt]

I've been looking in the Jacksonville, Fl. area for somebody to bump my timing. Thought about paying the $300. + for the tools from Miller, but figured I wouldn't be doing it more than once. Called Cummins in Jacksonville and rather than schedule me for an appointment, the girl in the service dept. referred me to a couple of independent shops. Bet her boss would be interested in knowing THAT ! I called XXXXXX Diesel, (one of her recommendations) and the guy I talked to tried to baffle me with BS. #ad
He was more interested in trying to sell me several thousand dollars in Hop-Up stuff, rebuilding my pump, and basically get very deep into my pocket for a bunch of stuff I don't feel I need. The other place I called, can't remember the name right now, was supposed to get back with me. Haven't heard from them since. #ad
Setting the timing is a very critical and involved operation. Don't trust the dealers because of limited exposure to the diesels. I'm capable of doing it, but was trying to avoid investing a bunch of money in a tool I would probably only use once. Caught between a rock and a hard place. Guess I'll start trying to find the tool I need. Hopefully I can beat the price of Miller's tool set. If anybody can steer me to a GOOD shop in the area, that won't try to rip me off, or has the tool that THEY've only used once and want to sell,I'm open to suggestions.

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1996 2500 4X4 Auto 3. 54 gears...

[This message has been edited by PSInt (edited 12-23-2000). ]

[This message has been edited by PSInt (edited 12-23-2000). ]

[This message has been edited by PSInt (edited 12-27-2000). ]

 

[Shrimpy]

Boy does that sound familiar!!!! PSInt we must have the same luck. The Cummins place in Houston only wants to sell parts. I live close to the water and all of the boat mechanics only want to use the pin as a reference (on my First Gen. ). You ask them about using a dial indicator or spill port method and they look at you like you just spoke in Latin to them!!! I have contemplated opening a shop for light and medieum duty trucks, but I personally am not a mechanic and fear getting in to deep. I can fix my own stuff, but don't want the hassle of my repairs not meeting others expectations.

Houston has over 3 million people and you would think someone would know how to time a CUMMINS to specification. I would probably have better luck finding the proper weather strip for a 58 edsel than get my CUMMINS timed. The two shops that I have found to do it want $275. 00, then 65. 00 an hour for any time over 1 hour!!! They both estimate between 1 to 2 1/2 hrs to complete. I'm not against a person making a profit, but don't make a whole days worth off of me!!!!!! 150. 00 to 165. 00 sounds reasonable to me, but what do I know?!?!?!

Just my . 0002$ worth

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 220,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[HEMI®Dart]

PSInt
I'm sure a member would let you borrow their Miller Timing kit. If I had one , I'd send it to you. #ad

 

[1tuffram]

I do not see why a shop would have a problem checking and setting the timing WITHIN the set spec for the CPL of your engine. I think the problem arises when you want the timing advanced ("bumped up") outside the engine manufacture's spec. Isn't this a big emissions no-no? I'm sure if the EPA found out big fines could follow. This could be the reason shops are reluctant to change the timing.

I have heard of guys getting better performance by "fine-tuning" the timing, but I think it is just setting the timing to what Cummins intended it to be (like mentioned earlier the timing does not always come set correct from the factory). Things may get a little sticky when you want to adv the timing above what Cummins and the EPA have established for your engine.

Best advice would be buy the tools and do-it-yourself. Sounds like it would be cheaper, especially if you need to play around with different timing settings to find the setting which works best for you.

PS: Snap-on tool also has all the tools you need to for this job. They can be purchased individually or they have a few different tool sets for the Cummins.

[This message has been edited by 1tuffram (edited 12-23-2000). ]

 

[PSInt]

I suppose you're right. EPA has screwed up everything from cars to fuel. Sure am gettin' sick of "Big Brother". #ad
Gonna' spring for the tool. I guess if ya' want something done right, you have to do it yourself. #ad


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1996 2500 4X4 Auto 3. 54 gears... Cat fell off!!

 

[KB0OU]

We need a Dodge Cummins Tool Shed, check out the tool, pay rent, use it, send it back. Simple, if ya don't send it back the cost goes on yer Visa. UPS would love it, and we could all do the work cheaper.

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96 CC 4X4 2500 SLT AUTO transmission, PrimeLoc, ISSPRO EGT Boost transmission Temp, GUTTED CAT, 150,000+ Miles still goin' strong, Lots of Ham Radio gear, NO IGNITION NOISE!!! Love my diesel!!! TST Fuel plate on the way, BOMBS AWAY!!!

 

[Missouri Mule]

Those looking for shops to have timing done. You can get Robert Bosch Authorized dealers from their web site. At least they should know what they are looking at.

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Bill Thomas
Missouri Mule - 96 Wht 4X4 ST CC,5 spd, 3. 54, 8 ft bed, 1 ft high cheater boards.
99 Freightliner bl/wht FL60 ISB-5. 9 24v,215 hp,520 tq,6 spd, 3. 59 nsr,16 ft box, 19. 5 tires,Wt/gvw 11,000/23000

 

[Kunze]

Well, as far as the EPA is concerned, they should be happy for us to adv. the timing. My '94 smokes less with the timing @ *15 than it did with the *11. 7 that it had before (supposedly *12 from the factory). I had mine done @ Scheid Diesel in Effingham Ill and I came from Cedar Rapids Ia. They also used a timing light, I asked them about spill port and they said that they could but they've done it both ways and spill port can be as much as *3 off!!! I have some very good things to say about them too. I also got my valves adjusted that day and they found a bent pushrod! I have no idea how it got that way especially since it's an auto. The last thing I went down for was gagues (I got ISSpro trans temp, boost, and egt). I ended up getting my throttle cable replaced and turned up 40 horse and 150 ft/lbs and have the before and after dyno sheets to prove it #ad


Summary: Schied Diesel does good work if you want to go the distance, our timing should be adjusted /w a timing light (from what I understand), and you can get an 800 # off of their ad in the TDR.

[This message has been edited by Kunze (edited 12-31-2000). ]

 

[1tuffram]

I'm not sure, but isn't the reason for retarding the timeing have to do with reducing NOx? (the stuff that is eating a hole in the ozone?). In order to meet more and more stringent emissions, engine makers are needing to retard the timing, which lowers combustion temps and thus reduces NOx (and results in more soot in the oil)

So advancing the timing will result in less smoke (higher combustion temps and therefore better fuel burn??), but also results in more NOx output (which is what the EPA does not want).

This is just a guess so I could be all wrong. If this is incorrect can someone please set me straight.

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'95 2500 SLT 5 speed 4x4

 

[drawson]

1tuffram, NOx is oxides of nitrogen, it isn't what is giving us a holely atmosphere. NOx is created by high combustion temp and is a magnet for particulate(sp) it take PM1s,2s,&3s and groups them together in PM10s which are harmful to our lungs. Smoke is particulate as is dust from dirt road and Tire smoke. They used NOx back in the muscle car days to get rid of our Hi compression engines and they are trying the same thing against us diesels. It has only been in the last ten years that they could measure NOx outside a lab. Another way to reduce NOx is EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirclation) by adding exhaust back into the intake you reduce combusion temp by having something introduced that can't add to combusion thus reducing the temp. I think it is total BS the PM magnet theory. #ad

 

[1tuffram]

drawson,
Thanks for helping clear up the NOx thing. I did not really know and just ASSumed, ya know what they say about assuming. Guess I don't have a clear picture of why in the he!! the feds are cracking down so hard on diesels. I thought they where concerned about global warming, not a little soot #ad
Besides don't diesel's produce less of the emission crap the EPA is concerned about. Seems to me the EPA/feds should be "picking" on someone else!!! I'm sure there are bigger violators out there than diesel pick-ups.

I know, one of you are going to say the EPA can't just exempt diesels in pick-ups, or set less strict emission regulations for pick-ups. It wouldn't be FAIR and sooner or later which diesels need to meet certain regulations would get hazy and people would find loop-holes. So just make the regulations apply to ALL diesels. What's good for one HAS to be good for all... right? #ad


Don't get me wrong I'm not fond of those older diesels belching out clouds of smoke. Seems newer diesels have a handle on this problem, so why all the fuss? Why the need for more and more diesel emissions regulations (and consequently more junk added to our engines at our expen$e)?

Sorry for all the ranting, this whole issue just fries my A-- Politics and diesels don't mix!

One of the reasons I enjoy this board so much is if you don't know, someone with the answer can set you straight.

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'95 2500 SLT 5 speed 4x4