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Injection timing discussion

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I would like to hear some thoughts about the current 3rd Gen's factory injection timing and what the box manufactures are doing.



Some things I would like to know are:

  • What is OEM timing
  • Is it considered retarded for emissions
  • How much advance is added by the various boxes with timing
  • Would advanced cam timing compliment increased injection timing

I am thinking timing advance is more critical for duration boxes (TST) to keep from having overall retarded timing due to extended injection events.



Pressure boxes that also add timing could easily run the risk of diesel knock or detonation with the wide range of available Diesel not held to the same quality control as gasoline.



I find it interesting the box manufactures don't give details as to how much and when timing changes are made, it's all so secrete. In the gas world its printed for your comparison. In the Diesel world. . its- well we do a little of this and a little of that to come up with some of this.



What do you all think? :confused:
 
Good questions. I don't think the factory manuals discuss the timing. You might simply have to ask Cummins.



-Ryan
 
rbattelle said:
You might simply have to ask Cummins.
I don't even want to try and go there. . probably need some sort of security clearance with a need to know badge.



The box makers are figuring it out though unless all they are doing is experimenting. I am testing my 3rd box (with timing) and can clearly hear an audible knock at times. Doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy having seen pistons that suffered from that.
 
Matt400 said:
I don't even want to try and go there. . probably need some sort of security clearance with a need to know badge.



You'd be surprised. The Cummins Powermaster has been very very helpful to me in the past. Just ask them to tell you the base ignition timing on the engine. There's really nothing secret about that, I don't think.



Of course, if you get your hands on a 2-channel oscilloscope I'd bet you could figure out the timing on your own. 1 channel to read the crank position sensor and 1 channel to read an injector. That would be a fascinating study.



-Ryan
 
Ryan, now you got me curious. mainly cause I'm trying to get my hands on a 4 channel o-scope for work so I can work on signal and function generatiors inshop instead of paying out the keester to have them sent out



one channel on the crank sensor, then another probe on 1,3,5 cylinders :D
 
drewRoberts said:
Ryan, now you got me curious. mainly cause I'm trying to get my hands on a 4 channel o-scope for work so I can work on signal and function generatiors inshop instead of paying out the keester to have them sent out



one channel on the crank sensor, then another probe on 1,3,5 cylinders :D



i'd say...



1. crank

2. cam

3. injector #1

4. HP fuel pressure control valve [to see the PWM on it]



then with a timing/fueling box installed, you could change the settings and see how it alters the signal. . ?
 
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