Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Injector Pump & Lift Pump Failure

[Deactivated (requested sold truck)]

Hello, I am a new member to the forum but I have been a Cummings owner for 10 years. I have 175,000 miles on 4x$ 2002 Ram, but last year I suffered from and lift pump that went bad and took the injector pump with it. Well not knowing better I had it repaired at the Dodge dealer for a cost of $3,800. #@$%! Now that I am a member, I realize I need get a fuel gauge put in so I will know when the lift pump starts to go.



Which fuel gauge would be recommended and how hard is it to put in?



Also should I go ahead and relocate the lift pump?



If I relocate it won't it get damaged when I off road?



Thanks

 

[ATGS]

I would recommend a Westach fuel pressure gauge. As far as difficulty goes, the FP guage is probably one of the easiest and I'm no mechanic! Where is your Lift pump now? Is is in the tank or next to your filter? Also what kind of modifications do you have?

 

[Deactivated (requested sold truck)]

Currently my lift pump is in the original position next to the block behind the fuel filter. You say it easy to install a gauge were the instruction easy to follow? I am a shade tree mechanic but more than one I have bitten of more than I chew. I was thinking of relocating the lift pump to the frame rail near the fuel tank (Vulcan kit)

 

[Deactivated (requested sold truck)]

Currently my lift pump is in the original position next to the block behind the fuel filter. You say it easy to install a gauge were the instruction easy to follow? I am a shade tree mechanic but more than one I have bitten of more than I chew. I was thinking of relocating the lift pump to the frame rail near the fuel tank (Vulcan kit)



As for modifications - None



My stock 2002 HO has been all I needed.

 

[ATGS]

Currently my lift pump is in the original position next to the block behind the fuel filter. You say it easy to install a gauge were the instruction easy to follow? I am a shade tree mechanic but more than one I have bitten of more than I chew. I was thinking of relocating the lift pump to the frame rail near the fuel tank (Vulcan kit)

http://www.genosgarage.com/installation_instructions/GGInstall-FuelPressureGauge.pdf

Here is some help from Genos Garage. I just replaced my intank lift pump with a raptor 100( on the frame. ) It was definetly a little more difficult for me but doable. Once you have the gauge in, if your pressure is adequate I don't feel yo u would need to move the lift pump. With that being said, an aftermarket lift pump from FASS or Pure flow is never a bad idea. The pressure gauge is your #1 priority.

 

[JMetzger]

As some have said pressure gauge is a first & a must, then the fuel pump on the engine has got to go. I had five OEM pumps on my 02 before I wised up & went with the Vulcan Big Line fuel kit & a FASS HPFP 95 mounted in the left front corner of the bed (where FASS instructions said to put it). The hardest part was replacing the fuel line at the tank. It is not to hard to install just take your time. Do not trust the OEM pump as they can fail at any given time, I know I was stranded on the side of the road twice. Lucky I had a spare. I changed mine out three years ago & haven't been sorry.

 

[Nyoest]

I put a new stock lift pump on the wife's 01 with the Vulcan big line kit. I couldn't be happier with the results. I can't get below 9 psi no matter what and I can get a replacement pump any where on a Sunday afternoon. Can you do that with an aftermarket pump? Oem pump is going on 5 years on the frame.

And yes, a gauge is muy importante.

 

[JMetzger]

Nyoest, I am glad you have had good luck with the OEM pump. I had 5 pumps in 6 years. They cost more then the one Fass that I put on three years ago & I know what the OEM pump cost even with my daughter' NAPA discount. I will idle at 15 psi & WOT with our RV never goes below 12. 5 psi. I am glad I did it.

 

[Deactivated (requested sold truck)]

I have been talking with a Diesel Tech (Ford guy) friend of mine and he said that a gauge fuel pressure won't help much. He said you can have pressure but not volume so the pressure gauge is a waste of $. Any ideas about it?

 

[VolsFan]

i am no mechanic, but talk to somebody who knows dodge/cummins at a reputable diesel shop, not a ford tech. As posted earlier, westach fuel pressure gauge is pretty good. Had mine for a few yrs mounted in the cubby hole with no complaints. Have the vulcan relo kit, used to run the carter pump. Gives up for no rhyme or reason. While way back in a mountain hollow in WV, my fuel pressure started dropping to 1-2 psi, had the pump on for about 6 months. limped it back at below 40 mph for a long time to get to a store to buy another crap carter for $200. did the fass pump as soon as i got home, running strong for a little over 3 yrs, happened in the late fall of 08. Moral of the story-the fuel pressure gauge saved me an injection pump and proved to me that the carter sucks, in the dodge/cummins application anyways

 

[Cosmo]

The VP44 needs flow/volume... If pressure drops you know you've got a problem, but you may have a problem even with good pressure.

The reason it needs volume is that the pump is lubricated and cooled by the fuel - if the volume isn't sufficient it's not going to cool and it's going to burn up.

IIRC the FSM test procedure for the lift pump is to measure volume of fuel pumped over a set time.

 

[bristoy]

i bought a brand new stock lift pump from cummins for my truck,it went bad in less than 3 months,took out my ij pump,cummins rep. told me i was S. O. L. because i was running a programer. i had the low press. light never came on,waste of $$. been running the fass for 5 years,no issues. i also have a autometer electronic fp gauge mounted on my steering colume using the colume gauge pod,easy to monitor there under the speedo. as others have said installing on of these after market fp's is not too diff. just take your time,follow instructions & you,ll do fine. just don't waste your time or $$ on the unreliable stock stuff. go w/the fass ,airdog or raptor systems you'll be glad you did just for the peace of mind.

 

[Bob4x4]

Something being over looked in most of these discussions is that the injection pumps have had many improvements since their inception back in '98.

They are more likely to last a good amount of time once replaced the first time.

As far as the lift pump goes their lifespan will be shortened if they are asked to run under a higher vacuum than spec'd.

All electric fuel pumps are much better pushing than pulling,moving a carter down to the frame rail will make it last longer and it will be more reliable. Adding a bigger fuel line to the injection pump will increase the flow. In the early 24v days we were also enlarging the passages in the restrictive banjo bolts.

 

[cerberusiam]

I have been talking with a Diesel Tech (Ford guy) friend of mine and he said that a gauge fuel pressure won't help much. He said you can have pressure but not volume so the pressure gauge is a waste of $. Any ideas about it?

Thats what you get for talking to a Ford guy, bad advice. :-laf



Pressure is a measurment of restriction in flow thru a fixed orfice. When the pressure drops the flow has dropped. Works perfectly for monitoring.

 

[Deactivated (requested sold truck)]

Thanks to all for the advice. I am convinced - A pressure gauge is a must! I put a Westach 0-15psi, on order. Since I have a stock 5. 9, I think the 0-15 will give a better reading.



I have a few more questions since the forum is full of answers:



I pulled my work order and when they the Dodge dealer changed the injector and lift pump they went ahead and did the retrofit. I guess the lift pump is now located in the tank, right?



Also are the new pumps more reliable since they are in essence a pusher verse a puller pump?

 

[Nyoest]

Thats what you get for talking to a Ford guy, bad advice. :-laf



Pressure is a measurment of restriction in flow thru a fixed orfice. When the pressure drops the flow has dropped. Works perfectly for monitoring.

Cerb there is an exception to every rule. Just had a 99 come in that a previous shop had put 4 IPs on it and it stil had 0215 &1689 codes and hot start issues Tested the LP pressure (raptor) and it was 15 psi. Tested the flow and it was waaayyy below spec. I don't know how it had good pressure with low flow but it did. Ended up getting warranty on the raptor and finding out it was the ECM bad.

 

[WalterRyan]

I would see if you can change your order to the higher pressure gauge. I am running the gauge you ordered and bought it for the same reason.



I looked at the stock pressure rating for the system and thought that would be the best gauge to use. I was wrong. Mine has had the needle against the stop for the last 6 or 7 years. That is with 3 different lift pumps. The only time it drops of the stop is when the lift pump starts to go downhill. The good news is it seems to be a good quality gauge and this has not seemed to hurt it at all.



I put on the Vulcan big line relocation kit last year and am real happy. The only downside is I can now hear the pump whining. I never heard it with the engine running before the relocation. I plan to make a heavier duty bracket and rubber mount the pump like stock but have not had the chance yet.

 

[cerberusiam]

As installed in the 3rd gens, the in-tank pumps have proven to be much more relaible and adequate for moderate power gains.



Some of the retro installations have had failures, but, it is hard to tell what the cause is. For added reliability some add a Carter pump inline with the in-tank pump with good results.

 

[Cosmo]

Thats what you get for talking to a Ford guy, bad advice. :-laf



Pressure is a measurment of restriction in flow thru a fixed orfice. When the pressure drops the flow has dropped. Works perfectly for monitoring.

Fine in theory, but not totally accurate.



As I said, you need to have X amount of FLOW.



If the injection pump requires 140mL per minute of flow but your lift pump is only delivering 50mL - even if it's at 15psi, you're going to burn up your injection pump.





That's why the factory test procedure to detect a failing lift pump is to disconnect the fuel line and measure the volume pumped over a period of time.

 

[cerberusiam]

Fine in theory, but not totally accurate.



As I said, you need to have X amount of FLOW.



If the injection pump requires 140mL per minute of flow but your lift pump is only delivering 50mL - even if it's at 15psi, you're going to burn up your injection pump.





That's why the factory test procedure to detect a failing lift pump is to disconnect the fuel line and measure the volume pumped over a period of time.

Incorrect assumptions based on invalid information. Sorry, you can try to break the laws of physics but it will never fly.



Pressure times area times interrval equals flow. Period. If the IP requires 140 ml per minute and the pump is only delivering 50 ml per minute you will have 0 pressure in a closed system.



Given the size of the orfice in the fuel line 15 psi will deliver enough flow to provide fuel at WOT and recirculating flow to cool\lube the pump up to a point. When you pass that point you must increase orfice size or pressure to keep up with demand.



The factory test procedure is crap and has been proven to be faulty time and time again. Rarely does the pump completely fail to pump fuel, rather, it fails to provide adequate flow in a closed system. It may very well flow all that is needed at 1 psi and fail completely at 12 psi because thats the way the pump works.



My previous statement is completely accurate and based on fact not flawed procedures used by dealers to avoid warranty replacement. This is not even an arguable point anymore. Its as ridiculous as the "Ford owns Cummins" myth.