Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Injector pump

[Flyboy]

I just got a call from a friend that just sent in his TDR membership yesterday. Today after having his fuel filter changed, he apparently had his injector pump go south on his 98. 5 diesel. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where best to buy a replacement injector pump? New? Remanufactured?

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[aircop]

What makes him think the pump went bad after changing the fuel filter. Has he checked for any codes.

 

[BigPapa]

I would think he has air in the lines instead of a bad VP44. I just had a friend who's lift pump died and left him walking. He replaced the lift pump and bled the system at the valve on the VP44. It wouldn't start. He called me and I told him to bleed the injector lines. Evidently, he thought I meant at the VP44 instead of at the injectors. Still no start. He started shopping for a new VP44 and called me for a recommendation. I asked about bleeding the lines and I told him to bleed them at the injectors this time. He cracked four of the six untill he got a steady stream of fuel, closed them up tight and guess what? She fired right up.



All that to say this, I would check everything before saying it's the VP44. I would be highly suspicious that you have air in the lines instead of a dead VP44 just after a filter change.



Scott

 

[Flyboy]

Aircop, my friend told me he had been having quite a bit of hesitation and roughness in the engine the last couple of weeks. I suggested three initial steps: (1) join TDR; (2) change the fuel filter; (3) install a fuel pressure gauge. He took the truck to a local garage today to have the fuel filter changed. He reported after the change they had trouble getting the engine started. Then finally after bleeding off some air it started and seems to run OK. However, it stopped completely half a mile from the shop. He finally got it restarted and limped back to the shop. The mechanic believes the trouble to be the injector pump, but will check it out more tomorrow.

 

[VolsFan]

I dont know where your friend is located, but I had my injection pump replaced at CV diesel right at the PA/MD line. I dont know what manufacturer they used, but the shop is really pleasant to do business with, I cant say enough good about them. They replaced my original VP back in July, and just the other week they determined it was bad again. They put me in a new one right away and covered labor under the one yr warranty. They sent the pump in to the manufacturer last week so they could examine it to see if I did anything to void the warranty, ie tap pump wire or fun low fuel pressure, I havent heard anything yet, sounds like it was just a faulty pump, as I closely monitor fuel pressure and didnt tap the pump. Anyways, sorry for the long rant, I just like to promote shops with exceptional service, I know its probably a long shot but hopefully your friend is in the area and can get it swapped out there.

Rick

 

[Flyboy]

VolsFan, my friend is located in Avon Park, FL.

 

[Ncostello]

On an ISB24V... you can just put the pedal to the floor and crank for about 15 seconds. It will purge itself of air and fire off on a couple cylinders. Then it will pick right up and smooth out pretty fast. Easier and cleaner than cracking injection lines. Don't be afraid to crank for a bit.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

vp-44 trucks have to be bled manually, common rails are self purging, holding the pedal down does nothing to help purge the air

 

[Bob4x4]

On an ISB24V... you can just put the pedal to the floor and crank for about 15 seconds. It will purge itself of air and fire off on a couple cylinders. Then it will pick right up and smooth out pretty fast. Easier and cleaner than cracking injection lines. Don't be afraid to crank for a bit.

:-laf Dont think so... ... ... ... .

 

[bnbrown]

I would definately check for air, and make sure there is good positive pressure. Sometimes leaks develop especially after filter change, possibly at the banjos, the filter housing (o-ring for instance) or the drain valve. Have seen the LPs go south in strange ways, had one that would run for the first 30 seconds, then go completely dead.
Really just need a FP gauge on there. And check codes.

Be afraid of cranking the VP dry... be very afraid they certainly are not self purging.

If it does come down to a VP, I have used MidWest Fuel Injection (Diesel performance parts and accessories. Diesel injectors, pumps, filters, kits, additive, gauges and apparel. ) for two VPs, great price, great service... and they dont charge for core upfront.

 

[Ncostello]

I know so. I'm going to have to disagree and stick to my post. Its been posted here before. Thats where I got that info. And it ALWAYS worked on my 99 when some filter changes didn't go as planned. I never cracked a line (nor would I with those pressures) and my truck always came out of air lock pretty quickly. I wasn't cranking dry. I had fuel up to the VP... just air between the VP and nozzles somehow. The VP isn't that poor to let go from a "dry" crank. Do they all explode when a person runs out of fuel at speed? Cranking at starter RPM for 10 or 15 seconds isn't going to hurt it IMO.



In fact... I believe the instructions that were floating around here for injector replacement is where the info was from. Thats the first time I did it. When I put my 275's in.



Or you don't have to try it.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

AIR BLEED PROCEDURE

A certain amount of air becomes trapped in the fuel system when fuel system components on the supply and/or high-pressure side are serviced or replaced. Primary air bleeding is accomplished using the electric fuel transfer (lift) pump. If the vehicle has been allowed to run completely out of fuel, the fuel injectors must also be bled as the fuel injection pump is not self-bleeding (priming)



Servicing or replacing components on the fuel return side will not require air bleeding.



WARNING: DO NOT BLEED AIR FROM THE FUEL SYSTEM OF A HOT ENGINE.



Loosen, but do not remove, banjo bolt holding low-pressure fuel supply line to side of fuel injection pump Fuel Supply Line Banjo Bolt Place a shop towel around banjo fitting to catch excess fuel

The fuel transfer (lift) pump is self-priming: When the key is first turned on (without cranking engine), the pump operates for approximately 2 seconds and then shuts off. The pump will also operate for up to 25 seconds after the starter is engaged, and then disengaged and the engine is not running. The pump shuts off immediately if the key is on and the engine stops running.



Turn key to CRANK position and quickly release key to ON position before engine starts. This will operate fuel transfer pump for approximately 25 seconds.

If fuel is not present at fuel supply line after 25 seconds, turn key OFF. Repeat previous step until fuel is exiting at fuel supply line.

Tighten banjo bolt at fuel supply line to 24 N·m (18 ft. lbs. ) torque. Primary air bleeding is now completed.

Attempt to start engine. If engine will not start, proceed to following steps. If engine does start, it may run erratically and be very noisy for a few minutes. This is a normal condition.

Continue to next step if:

The vehicle fuel tank has been allowed to run empty

The fuel injection pump has been replaced

High-pressure fuel lines have been replaced

Vehicle has not been operated after an extended period

CAUTION: Do not engage the starter motor for more than 30 seconds at a time. Allow two minutes between cranking intervals.



Perform previous air bleeding procedure steps using fuel transfer pump. Be sure fuel is present at fuel supply line Fuel Supply Line Banjo Bolt before proceeding.

Crank the engine for 30 seconds at a time to allow air trapped in the injection pump to vent out the drain manifold

WARNING: THE FUEL INJECTION PUMP SUPPLIES EXTREMELY HIGH FUEL PRESSURE TO EACH INDIVIDUAL INJECTOR THROUGH THE HIGH-PRESSURE LINES. FUEL UNDER THIS AMOUNT OF PRESSURE CAN PENETRATE THE SKIN AND CAUSE PERSONAL INJURY. WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES AND ADEQUATE PROTECTIVE CLOTHING AND AVOID CONTACT WITH FUEL SPRAY WHEN BLEEDING HIGH-PRESSURE FUEL LINES.



WARNING: ENGINE MAY START WHILE CRANKING STARTER MOTOR.



Engine may start, may run erratically and be very noisy for a few minutes. This is a normal condition.



Thoroughly clean area around injector fittings where they join injector connector tubes.

Bleed air by loosening high-pressure fuel line fittings Bleeding High-Pressure Fuel Lines at Injectors at cylinders number 3, 4 and 5

Continue bleeding injectors until engine runs smoothly. It may take a few minutes for engine to run smooth.

Tighten fuel line(s) at injector(s) to 38 N·m (28 ft. lbs. ) torque.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

I am dodge/cummins certified, putting the pedal down does about the same thing as on a fuel injected gas vehicle, absolutely nothing. The only thing it does, is when the engine starts to run your giving it more fuel. But its not bleeding the air out of the system.



Yes I have changed fuel filters without needing to bleed the injectors and I have done them where I needed to bleed the injectors, but a fuel filter doesn't drain off that much fuel if you do the filter quick enough.

 

[JLandry]

Yes I have changed fuel filters without needing to bleed the injectors and I have done them where I needed to bleed the injectors, but a fuel filter doesn't drain off that much fuel if you do the filter quick enough.

I've been lucky and have never had to bleed air when only changing a fuel filter. But I always bump the starter once to pressurize the primary fuel system prior to starting.



Mopartech, please let me if I have this fuel system bleeding summary wrong:

1. Bleed primary fuel system by loosen banjo bolt on VP44 and bump starter. Close banjo bolt when fuel is present.



2. Attempt to start by cranking for up to 30 seconds in order to purge air trapped in the VP44 and out to the tank return line. If no start...



3. Loosen injector lines 3, 4, and 5 and attempt to start again. Close injector lines as soon as fuel is present at the fittings and/or engine starts.​

Thanks,



John L.

 

[Flyboy]

Thanks for the information fellows. As it turns out the o-ring was nicked when installing the new fuel filter. It was sucking air. The engine now runs fine. I suspect the rest of the problem may relate to the govenor solenoid in the transmission keeping the transmission from staying locked up in 4th gear.

 

[Ncostello]

I am not Dodge/Cummins certified. I always got my truck to start after working on the fuel system and introducing air. Just a couple statements which are true to my knowledge.



I read facts, suggestions, hints, tips, BS, jokes and guesses here on TDR. Thats why I joined some time ago. Some things I read have worked for me.



So... when cranking... absolutely no signal is going to the VP44 which is related to throttle position? Its totally a dead pedal until after the engine is running?



I wonder why cranking with no pedal produced a no-start for me always after fuel system work. Then when I held it too the floor... it would always start after cranking for 10 seconds. Everytime. I did this alot with all the fuel sytem work I did. Strange.

 

[BigPapa]

Glad you found your problem Flyboy and you don,t have to buy a new VP44.



Scott

 

[fox]

Thanks for the information fellows. As it turns out the o-ring was nicked when installing the new fuel filter. It was sucking air. The engine now runs fine. I suspect the rest of the problem may relate to the govenor solenoid in the transmission keeping the transmission from staying locked up in 4th gear.

That o ring is on the cover of the filter?

That should be pressureized by the lift pump.

If it is sucking air, as you say, he needs to check the pressure to the inlet of the VP.

The trans is not staying locked because of electrical noise.

You can disconnect the alt, go for a drive to prove it.

First thing is to cleans all battery posts and grounds.

Get back to us if it continues. He will damage the converter if he allows it to continue.

 

[JLandry]

As it turns out the o-ring was nicked when installing the new fuel filter. It was sucking air.

How is this possible?



Assuming the lift pump is working properly...



The fuel filter canister is under pressure, so if the o-ring were not sealing properly, any trapped air in the cannister would leak first followed by fuel being leaked.



Very suspicious.



John L.