Injector Questions - What causes this ?

[TKarnas]

I have a 04 and took it into the shop for a noise I thought was a injector going south. They send me these photos. What causes this ?

 

[JJPage]

Kind of looks like water contamination, from leaky cross tubes? Or head gasket?

 

[TKarnas]

So what is involved on fixing this. I am concerned that this rust got into my cylinders? Should I worry about that?



Shop told me that they thought I got water in my fuel. Lines are pretty much rusted on the inside. I was told I needed to drop the tank and flush out, clean lines, replace the CP3 and refurb the injectors, put in a fuel seperator. I trust the shop just it seems tht this motor should handle a little water since the fuel we put in the trucks is crap anyways



Does this sound right?

 

[cerberusiam]

So what is involved on fixing this. I am concerned that this rust got into my cylinders? Should I worry about that?

Injectors refurbed, new cross over tubes, new lines, new rail, new lines to rail, new CP-3, and maybe lines back to the filter or even possibly tank.



The fact that it RAN form the looks of it and rusted lines is pretty amazing. Looks like it has been ingesting water for a relatively long period of time. I would check your fuel source for contamination.

 

[TCDiesel]

What Type of filration was installed to let all that water BY? X2 with Post #4

 

[TCDiesel]

Kind of looks like water contamination, from leaky cross tubes? Or head gasket?

I hope their would be nothing that corrosive in his coolant.

 

[JApol]

member Testraub had a similair problem a couple of years ago. His truck would barely idle and had no power. His dealer said that entire fuel system would need to be cleaned/replaced at his expense. His insurance coved the bill and he put in an after market water separator and 2 micron filter. He also installed a stock filter bypass. When he pulled out the stock fuel filter bowl he found that the water separator was covered in junk and the water never got to it to turn on the light.

When I get home from this cruise I am replacing ALL my fluids and pulling the filter bowl and cleaning it out. Hopefully it not to late for me.

 

[rscurtis]

How would the condition of the outside of the injector tubes be indicative of fuel quality?

 

[GaryOwen]

Have you been using any fuel additives? I just noticed that Stanadyne PF is supposed to fight corrosion and rust. Wonder if it really helps. I'm not promoting or discouraging use of additives, but simply trying to get useful info.

 

[sag2]

How would the condition of the outside of the injector tubes be indicative of fuel quality?

The outside of the tubes rust because they are in the return rifle to the back of the head. You can easily see the rust on the outside, but rest assured there is rust on the inside of everything as well. The proper repair is to drop and clean the tank, replace everything that touches fuel from the lift pump to the return line. Lift pump, CP3, HP lines, Rail, Connector tubes, injectors. Anything less and you are just asking for the rust to return and tear up the pump and injectors.

 

[MMeier]

There goes what ... . 8 or 9 grand out the window !!

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

More than that if the dealer does it. I've heard of quotes ranging from $11000 to $13000 at the dealer.

 

[lmills]

yep guys, just a heads up. Second one to roll thru the shop this month. On the first one the owner didn't get it shut down when the injector let go and burnt #6 bad. Engine needs to come out of that one. Karnas was fortunate and had the symptoms checked in time.

 

[testraub]

JApol is right. I had to have the pump, tank, common rail, lines, CP3 and all 6 injectors replaced. Luckily, it was covered by insurance as vandalism. I installed a 2 Micron fuel filter and water seperator from GDP, Glacier Diesel Power - Product Detail , and competely removed the stock filter housing which was so full of gunk, the WIF sensor never saw water in the fuel. I made a small change to the GDP system later putting on a FS1242B filter (90 Gal/H flow) and added a WIF sensor (Cummins part# 3834335S) to it and tied it into the old WIF wiring so the dash light would come on if it saw anything on a long trip. Guess I was very lucky as the entire cost to replace the system was only like 4K. I took home all the parts I could, Pump, lines, rail and cleaned the living heck out of them. The CP3 and injector were returned (core) and the dealer had to drill a big hole in the tank to drain it. I also added a locking fuel cap from Geno's to make the insurance company happy.

 

[lmills]

Guess I was very lucky as the entire cost to replace the system was only like 4K.

How did you come up with the 4K number? Is that what you had to put out of pocket?

 

[testraub]

Opps Wishful thinking i guess. looked up receipt 8. 5K Was thinking something else.

 

[HBarlow]

Wow, the repair cost figures I'm reading here are scary.

The only diesel trucks I've ever owned or had any experience with have been three Dodge Rams with OEM fuel filter systems in place. I've always been pretty cautious fueling primarily at Flying Js and, if not available, on rare occasions another of the big name truck stop chains. The times I've fueled at small independent truck stops have been few and never at a neighborhood gas station that also carries diesel fuel.

I've never given the subject a lot of thought beyond care in selecting fuel sources. Perhaps I've been luckier than I realize.

How do the fuel filter systems on big OTR trucks differ from our Rams? Do big trucks or big truck fleets use much better filtration?

 

[TCDiesel]

HBarlow. Cummins has some new Products http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT32599_01.pdf

And Lubricity Doser Systems



It's only 6 years Late

 

[mwilson]

Harvey,

From what we have seen over the last two years with fuel filters on the Class 8 trucks I have decided that there is a fine line between protecting the fuel injection system and having a fuel filter that plugs on the second trip to New Jersey in one week. We seriously had people in 2007-2008 that could not run a full week on a primary fuel filter, drivers were buying 6-8 fuel filters at a time to carry with them. The filters were too fine. The predominant set up for filters now from the factory is a 20 to 30 micron Racor fuel/water separator mounted to the frame and then the standard fuel filter specced by that engine brand mounted to the block. That seems to be working better.





It wasn't too bad if you had a Cat, but Detroit, Mercedes and Cummins went a little too far with the original spec for the primary and learned a lot in a short time. :-laf

They had good intentions and were trying to protect the fuel systems and regen systems. The trucking industry has been slammed trying to cope with the EGR systems, regen/aftertreatment devices, ultra-low sulpher diesel and now the Urea treatment coming out in 2010. Diesels used to be simple, eh??:{





Not related to this thread but this thought just popped up in the old cranium,

Big Rigs carry 200 to 300 gallons of fuel. Up to 90% of the fuel delivered to the injectors is returned unburned to the tank. If we spec a truck with a single tank (100 gallons or under) a fuel cooler is mandatory and is added by the factory. Are our 34 gallon Ram tanks getting the fuel a little hotter than it should be under certain conditions?????

 

[TKarnas]

WOW thanks all for your responses !



To answer some of your questions...



I get my fuel from one place since I bought the truck used with 50K. ITs the same place that other rigs get fuel. THey have new tanks. less than 2 years old.



I ran Fuel additives in the truck every other fill up. I have used Diesel Power w cetane and I cant think of the name but its the white or grey bottle than can be bought at Walmart... .



Do you think this could have been from the previous owner? I tend to agree with what some have said about this has been goin on for a long time.



My question to you all is what is the point of having the water seperator with the fuel fitler? Does this only pull out vapor ?

Also if there was so much water going through why was the sensor not going off?

!