Injectors...life with more power?

[ACerf]

I happened to read in this months TDR about; more power effecting the life of the injectors! My question is; When you add some extra equipment to get more horsepower does it effect the life of the injectors? I have a California STD Horsepower 5. 9. I have added a AFE Stage I Intake, Changed the exhaust and using an Edge Ez tow. Which I have set at the lowest setting (40 HP). I am thinking that the AFE and the Exhaust don't have that much effect on injector life, but I could be wrong. On the other hand the Edge could! I had to have the injectors replaced at 105,000 miles. The engine was idling rough in Park and somethimes netural. So could the Edge have caused the injectors to go bad before there time? Or was it just there time to go bad?

 

[rbattelle]

Nothing is free. No matter what anyone tells you, if you increase horsepower by toying with the high pressure fuel system you are going to decrease engine life. It's that simple.

Frequently, the injectors go first. We all know common rail injectors are sensitive to wear at the needle and seat. It seems logical that higher pressure is going to accelerate that wear.

I've been around here long enough to see it over and over and over. Someone slaps on a little electronic box and has a blast with all that wonderful power. Then, some time later, he's back complaining of rough idle, smoke, stalling, and so on. It's awful! I hate to see someone go through all that heartbreak (and expense).

The worst part, in my opinion, is the number of people who out of sheer ignorance blow the engine, then tell the world what a piece of junk Cummins engines and Dodge trucks are because they "only last 100k". Or some such nonsense.

Obviously, there are exceptions. There are always exceptions.

Did the Edge kill your injectors? Impossible to answer. Edge and other fueling box advocates will say, "absolutely no chance". People who don't like Edge or other fueling boxes will say, "absolutely it did". But the truth is there are too many variables and it's not worth the money to do a thorough analysis to find out whether the Edge did it. The only real answer is "maybe".

I think the only thing you can do to increase power without impacting life might be increasing pumping efficiency (inlet and exhaust). I don't see where that would negatively impact life of any component.

Ryan

 

[BILLVO]

You should be ok if I read right you have an Edge EZ and that is a timing only box. Its the pressure boxes on a CR that seem to kill the injectors the fastest from all of what I have read and seen.

 

[cerberusiam]

You should be ok if I read right you have an Edge EZ and that is a timing only box. Its the pressure boxes on a CR that seem to kill the injectors the fastest from all of what I have read and seen.

The Edge EZ is a pressure box and boost fooloing.



There is no doubt the EZ can contribute to early injector failure, especially on the first year CR models. Is it the only factor? Not by a long shot. Fuel quality and driving style have as much or more impact than a little added pressure.



Lots of factors detemrine injector failure and unless you have logged and tested every tank of fuel, every trip, observerved rail pressures its impossible to say yes or no. We just fix the problem and go on. As long as the truck perfoms to your satisfaction then all is good.

 

[BILLVO]

When did the EZ start adding Pressure to the mix? It has always been a timing and boost fooling only box.



Friend has one on his 03 and it is only a Timing and boost fooling only just like the Vp44 EZ's were.

 

[TCDiesel]

EZ has been PBox from its creation in 03, What destroys injectors is a simple Process (Supply Vs demand) the injection system is NOT subject to supply when adding additional performance, manipulations are common, the demand can easily over take the supply at low RPMs, when that happens the waves and pluses created by cam driven pumps will be damaging. Cerberusiam is also correct excessive PSI will contribute or possibly destroy Injectors contamination and type play roles also.

 

[BILLVO]

EZ has been PBox from its creation in 03.

What the heck I just learned something new today, Time for a beer to soak it all in. Thanks for the info.

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep, There was retailers that had EZ as a timing/Duration on the platform of changing pressure changed Duration that effected the Timing. I hear it regularly that the PowerPDA is ( is a wee old pressure Box) it does add pressure, the timing and duration come on much later than most. Excessive Pressure is the culprit,Additional pressure is fine,couple it was correct Timing/Duration makes for years of life and service.

 

[cerberusiam]

When did the EZ start adding Pressure to the mix? It has always been a timing and boost fooling only box.



Friend has one on his 03 and it is only a Timing and boost fooling only just like the Vp44 EZ's were.

I was wondering about that statement, are you sure your not thinking of the Juice?



EZ, Ramifier, MP8, Dr P, XZT modules have always been pressure from the start. Been responsible for a few injector deaths if you crank them up also.



TST was the only box for a while that didn't do pressure. Suppose Mark knows something about pressure and its effects? :-laf



Extra pressure plus low quality fuel will eat the seats really fast and the older trucks seem more susceptible.

 

[ACerf]

I remember reading in a previous TDR issue; that if you stay conservative on the EZ setting, 40hp, that it would not do much harm. But maybe that is not the case. Also, I thought that the EZ would only work when more power was needed, and not doing much at the lower RPM range? The dealer and Chrysler/Dodge told me that the problem with the injectors was due to me idling the engine to long. Comparing the total run time to idle time.

 

[JWadford]

I have destroyed a few from pressure...

 

[TimothyLong]

Yep, There was retailers that had EZ as a timing/Duration on the platform of changing pressure changed Duration that effected the Timing. I hear it regularly that the PowerPDA is ( is a wee old pressure Box) it does add pressure, the timing and duration come on much later than most. Excessive Pressure is the culprit,Additional pressure is fine,couple it was correct Timing/Duration makes for years of life and service.

So, does this mean the PowerPDA is better or worse for excessive pressure/wear? Since I have one, I'm trying to learn something myself.

 

[TCDiesel]

Yes the PowerPDA does add pressure ,along with Timing/ Duration ( I recommend Ver 1. 5 for all Dodge Cummins ), I have NEVER seen the Unit allow over 24. 500 (Stand alone) which is well under safe limits. It brings it on quicker than stock, I run about 26. 500 max now and have been for close to 3 years (PowerPDA/T-Dog Stack), I have the wild rail install for most of that ( keeps the injectors happy), the only time I used the Extreme Rail is race, Pull or dyno events. I have the factory injectors still install at 102K without any signs of trouble

 

[TimothyLong]

Yes the PowerPDA does add pressure ,along with Timing/ Duration ( I recommend Ver 1. 5 for all Dodge Cummins ), I have NEVER seen the Unit allow over 24. 500 (Stand alone) which is well under safe limits. It brings it on quicker than stock, I run about 26. 500 max now and have been for close to 3 years (PowerPDA/T-Dog Stack), I have the wild rail install for most of that ( keeps the injectors happy), the only time I used the Extreme Rail is race, Pull or dyno events. I have the factory injectors still install at 102K without any signs of trouble

Thanks for the info! I'm running version 2. 0 at the moment. I seem to recall another thread here recently where you mentioned about 1. 5 being better than the newer versions. Do you still have 1. 5 available? Version 1. 8 was what mine came with.



(ACerf, didn't mean to hijack your thread. )

 

[TCDiesel]

Send your email address to -- email address removed -- I will zip it back to Ya.

 

[HBarlow]

I remember reading in a previous TDR issue; that if you stay conservative on the EZ setting, 40hp, that it would not do much harm. But maybe that is not the case. Also, I thought that the EZ would only work when more power was needed, and not doing much at the lower RPM range? The dealer and Chrysler/Dodge told me that the problem with the injectors was due to me idling the engine to long. Comparing the total run time to idle time.

Keep in mind, very few Dodge dealer technicians and service managers actually know very much about these trucks. I am not demeaning their ability to diagnose and repair problems, what I mean is few of them own and drive one or read about them as we do. They were telling you that an ECM scan gave them a print out that indicated your idle hours as a percentage of total operating hours was higher than normal and perhaps higher than Dodge statistics indicate is normal. I don't know if they have the capability of reading out HPCR line pressure. Their computer should be able to detect that your engine has/had been modified with an electronic box but maybe the ECM in your earlier truck didn't have the memory capacity or detection programming to tell them that.

I believe that the later HPCR engines and certainly the ISB6. 7 engines do have the ability to "tattle" ie detect, record, and report modifications.

 

[steved]

Keep in mind, very few Dodge dealer technicians and service managers actually know very much about these trucks.

I second this... they spew out what Dodge engineering tells them is the cause...