Insider's View on Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel....

[Katmandu]

Saw this on another site and thought it would be of interest here.

Hey fellows, I work in product blending and shipping at a local refinery here in south louisiana. I just started 6 months ago but from what I've been observing they are treating this stuff (ULSD)like gold. For the past year they have been modifing all piping with double block & bleeds and blinds. In the past finish diesel shared piping with untreated diesel during tank transfers. Now ULSD will have its own piping and pumps. Also we just came off of a 2 month turnaround on our hydrotreater that will be processing ULSD. This hydrotreater will treat cat feed when it comes back on line but will swap to diesel mode sometimes in april. When they swap to diesel in April, the diesel leaving the hydrotreater will be on spec at 10 ppm. They are figuring it will take 2 months to flush all of the sulphur out of the tanks and piping systems in the plant. It will also give us time for any adjustment are problems they might have. I'm sure other refineries are doing the same to meet the june deadline. So you can expect the sulphur in diesel to drop off at the pump well before june. Also, the hydrotreater will have to run hotter to treat the ULSD. Hotter means more hydrogen, more hydrogen means more money. With all the work these refineries are doing to prepare for this stuff and extra process cost, you can bet your butt we will pay for it at the pump. And one more thing, the extra hydrotreating will bump the centane number up. I don't know how much but it will go up. And just to give you and idea how low is 10ppm. The ultra low sulphur gas that we put into the pipeline is 30ppm. This is a little info I got from work. I just wanted to share it with ya'll. Some of ya'll may already know this.

 

[Dieselnut59]

Now, if we could get a better tax structure like UK has, in favor of diesel we will be doing alright! Their fuel taxes encourage the more fuel efficient diesel. Ours penalize diesel in comparason to gasoline. I am not sure of the exact numbers, but we need less fuel tax on the more efficient fuel like UK has. That would lessen the pain at the pump when the ULSD pain hits.

 

[CMullen]

you'd think they'd take some of those gross profits and invest in this new technology instead of sticking it to the consumer again. I should have stayed at a holiday inn express last night, then i could tell what to do

 

[mhuggler]

I checked out a sample of this ulsd, it was completely clear and didn't even smell like diesel. It smelled more like really harsh cleaning solvent. I can't imagine what this stuff is going to do to my vp44. Looks like some serious fuel additive is going to be needed!

 

[Regcabguy]

Here in SoCal Arco claims on its pumps that its already ULSD and four years earlier than mandated. What's the deal,any truth to that? I work for the public school system here in San Diego and our largest school buses have run on"Green Diesel"(that's what it says on the pumps anyway) for many months now. The mechanics say it's "reduced sulfer" and that no out of the ordinary problems have been encountered. Who knows? I do wish the U. S. would align itself with European fuel logic.

 

[mhuggler]

Here in SoCal Arco claims on its pumps that its already ULSD and four years earlier than mandated. What's the deal,any truth to that? I work for the public school system here in San Diego and our largest school buses have run on"Green Diesel"(that's what it says on the pumps anyway) for many months now. The mechanics say it's "reduced sulfer" and that no out of the ordinary problems have been encountered. Who knows? I do wish the U. S. would align itself with European fuel logic.

It's unlikely to be ulsd. This is a massive transition requiring cleaning/flushing of all piping, tanks, etc, with the new fuel. Sounds more like they're talking about biodiesel.

 

[Wayne M.]

Where I work (NYC Department of Sanitation), we have been running ULSD for a while now. We have quite a wide variety of Diesel powered equipment, from lowly GM 6. 5's and powerstrokes, to current Mack Etech/Vmac's, Cummins powered machinery numbering in the hundreds (with lots being ISB's with VP44's), Kubota powered J Deere gators, all the way to Trecan snowmenters burning ULSD. This is the only fuel we have been using and goes into everything. It is true that the appearance is clearer, the aroma is different and (I think) it's more expensive. The reliability rate has not changed (as some of us thought it might) when the change was made. Of course we see the occasional pump and injector nozzle failure, but nothing drastic.

I agree that with the record oil company profits, the changeover should be invisible to us!

 

[2broke2smoke]

ok guys, i've got a couple of quick questions;



1) will ULSD be the only diesel available commonly at the pump by june 1st

in other words we'll all be running it to Indy, no matter where we're coming from?



2) if so, what are the "flushing" effects on our fuel systems? my '01 has 125k

and the wifes '03 has 55k, should i change fuel filters in say June then July

again just to be safe?

 

[Wayne M.]

ok guys, i've got a couple of quick questions;



1) will ULSD be the only diesel available commonly at the pump by june 1st

in other words we'll all be running it to Indy, no matter where we're coming from?



2) if so, what are the "flushing" effects on our fuel systems? my '01 has 125k

and the wifes '03 has 55k, should i change fuel filters in say June then July

again just to be safe?

1) This is true eventually, but I don't know the date. I'm thinking the "Green" states will have it first.



2) I think you're thinking of a biodiesel concern.

 

[DDeputy]

In the new issue of TDR, one of the concerns about ULSD is that it is such a strong cleaning agent that it is scouring out the storage tanks and lines and could cause some filter issues! Issue 51 Blowin' in The Wind, Page 55 "Fuel Concerns: ULSD

 

[tgee]

In the new issue of TDR, one of the concerns about ULSD is that it is such a strong cleaning agent that it is scouring out the storage tanks and lines and could cause some filter issues! Issue 51 Blowin' in The Wind, Page 55 "Fuel Concerns: ULSD

I work for a DDC distributor, and have been noticing a large number of trucks coming into our shop with low power complaints. 90% of the time, its caused by a plugged fuel filter. Could this be the reason? Also have seen cold starting issues, smoke on startup, runs rough untill warm, have been updating engine ECM software calibrations to address this. The fuel has changed, hasn't it?

 

[Wayne M.]

Just noticed there's now an alternative fuel forum on the TDR.

 

[macdaddy]

In the new issue of TDR, one of the concerns about ULSD is that it is such a strong cleaning agent that it is scouring out the storage tanks and lines and could cause some filter issues! Issue 51 Blowin' in The Wind, Page 55 "Fuel Concerns: ULSD

DD



Your right, I also believe it mentions the cost increase as well.



ULSD, is being phased in as we speak. The EPA mandated deadline is Sept of 06. This is when you know you'll be getting the real stuff every time you fill up.



Mac

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It's unlikely to be ulsd. This is a massive transition requiring cleaning/flushing of all piping, tanks, etc, with the new fuel. Sounds more like they're talking about biodiesel.

Now, if they would spend all that same effort on cleaning up the transport, transfer and storage/distribution to the end customer, we might end up with consistent diesel fuel quality at the pump - you know, like what we are *charged for*!



Past issues on quality of diesel at the pump has revolved heavily upon lack of regulations as to overall quality in the delivered product, as well as failure to actually enforce the ones that do exist.



Anyone here really think that will change?

 

[Scrappy]

how is this going to affect Biodiesel, what is its sulphur content? It might help get more Bio out there (I can only hope) With the higher ULSD Cetane that was mentioned, will that improve fuel economy? I don't mind paying a little more for fuel IF fuel economy also goes up.

 

[HRDROKN]

In general, the processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also reduces the aromatics content and density of diesel fuel, resulting in a reduction in energy content (BTU/gal). The expected reduction in energy content is on the order of 1% and may affect fuel mileage.



The process of reducing aromatics will also improve the cetane. An increase in cetane will give a shorter ignition delay (period from injection to ignition) which will give you easier starting and less knock (noise).



The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005. The D975 specification is based on the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR) test (D 6079) and requires a wear scar no larger than 520 microns.

 

[MMcfall]

Just thought I'd pass along the response I just received directly from Cummins on ULSD.



Details:

I currently own a 2002 Dodge 2500 with the Cummins engine and about 110K miles.

LOVE IT!! Only weak point of the engine seems to be the lift pump and VP-44.

Had to have both replaced at 97K miles. I monitor several internet forums and

seems that I am not alone. When I had the VP-44 and lift pump replaced I

received the "in tank" lift pump update.



Question - a hot topic on the forums the last few weeks has been the new ultra

low sulfur diesel(ULSD) that is coming to the pumps now and mandated by the end

of the year. Will this ULSD have a detrimental service life shortening of the

VP-44. If so, what steps can owners take to cope with the new fuel?



Thanks again.



Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:12:05 -0500 (EST)

From: -- email address removed --

Subject: Re: RQST00000409338



Summary: 65613 VP-44 and Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel



Solution:

Thanks for your Email message.



Ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel is a specially refined diesel fuel that has

dramatically lower sulfur content than regular on-highway diesel and can be used in

any diesel engine just like regular on-highway diesel fuel. Today, the sulfur

content of ULSD ranges from 15 to 30 parts per million. Regular diesel has a

maximum of 500 parts per million of sulfur. Other than the sulfur content,

ultra-low sulfur diesel generally meets the same specifications as regular on-highway

diesel. Starting in 2006, the majority of highway-grade diesel fuel must be ULSD

and have no greater than 15 ppm sulfur level at the pump.



Converting to ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel is simple. ULSD doesn't require any

special storage systems, and is stored in the same kinds of storage tanks and

fueling systems of today's diesel fuel. ULSD is already available in some parts

of the country on a limited basis, mostly to fleet purchasers, but at some

service stations in California. Many transit and school bus fleets around the

country have converted to using cleaner ULSD in their existing operations. For an up

to date map showing where ULSD is available go to

<http://www.epa.gov/otaq/retrofit/fuelsmap.htm>.



In October of 1993 a switch to low sulfur diesel fuel was required by the EPA.

A color coding of fuels was driven by IRS regulations published in Nov, 1993

and the EPA in Oct, 1993. The EPA instituted a blue dyed fuel to distinguish the

high sulfur fuel. There was also a red dyed fuel available for the low sulfur

tax exempt fuel. It is our understanding that the color-coding is no longer

required, however, some of the dyed fuel may still be around.



Cummins engines will perform satisfactorily on low sulfur fuels, however,

engines that have been running on high sulfur fuels then switched to low sulfur

fuels may have fuel pump seal leaks. This is caused by the difference in the 'swell

rate' of seals exposed to the different amounts of sulfur. Seals tend to swell

more with high sulfur fuel and less with low sulfur fuels. The Cummins PT fuel

pumps had most of the fuel leaks at that time but Cummins no longer uses the PT

fuel system on highway engines.



We expect the low sulfur fuel transition to be transparent to customers. The

15 ppm S fuel will meet Cummins fuel requirements with the only difference being

sulfur content. Customers will not lose warranty or suffer any reduced life,

due to the switch. The only perceivable concern is some possible seal leakage

due to extremely low aromatic content as a side effect to sulfur removal,

compared to higher sulfur fuels. We expect that risk will be minimal at this point

because most low sulfur fuel retains sufficient aromatic content and Cummins

fuel system seals have been improved to tolerate that.



We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you

need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor

Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to

use Cummins North America Dealer Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:



http://wsl.cummins.com/ServiceLocator/jsp/controller.jsp?action=servicelocator



Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer

or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to

call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357).



Email direct: -- email address removed --



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