installed the Carter P4601HP pump ...

[David_VT]

Keep up the great R&D!!

 

[Straight6Jeff]

Next step should be to take off the tires and put pontoons and some propellors on it..... Might help on the roads!!!!!



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01 2500 V-10 4x2 QC/LB, 4. 10, Ruenel Bumper/brush guard, RS 9000's, 2" frt springs 1500#/in, KC Daylighters, Rhino Liner, Spin Tech Muffler, DD 4" Tail, 265 BFG A/T, Lots more to come

 

[pres10]

I am a newbie and this lift pump problem is what led me to the TDR #ad
I have found some very good info here ..... a hell of a lot more than DC was willing to give. Have also read the long thread about solving the lift pump problem and banjo fitting problems. Enjoyed all of it and the knowledge that I received from each TDR member who wrote in to it ... . but a special thanks to Mopar Muscle for his R & D work and his willingness to write agout it.

One thing different in my problem is an intermittent loss of power to the lift pump even when no pressure is present ... I have this fixed temporarily, but am still searching for the reason. Can anyone help?

Also I was thinking of staging two pumps in line, by rebuilding my old factory lift pump and placing it near the tank to feed my new factory replacement ..... does anyone know where to get a rebuild kit for the original pump ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[pres10]

Forgot to clic the signature.

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2K Auto, 354 gears, VA and BLUE box, 4" exhaust, Auto Meter EGT and 60# Boost Guage, pressure lock,(soon to be replaced by DTT VB and TC) every option but the sliding rear window and snow plow prep. and sport package

 

[Mopar-muscle]

finally got it put in last nite , but not before it started to rain , so i don't have WOT data as of yet , and its snowing right now #ad
.

i installed it in the stock location for the first test , used a 90* 3/8 compression fitting on the inlet and sawwed the banjo end off the stock line that fed the stock lift pump , no turning back now i suppose #ad
used a 3/8 npt to -6 male on outlet , drilled it out to 21/64 and put a 100* chamfer on the inlet . as far as wiring i cut off the stock connector and attached the new wires to feed factory power to the pump . last but not least i switched the mounting studs off the stock pump as i didn't have the time to pull the factory bracket and drill it to except the rubber gromments supplied with the new pump . when i cut the factory bajo off i also removed the mouning braket that was attached to it as it is no longer needed and would have to be trimmed to fit between the compression nut and the lock for the stock fuel line connection .

i also ditched the banjo fitting coming out of the filter housing , only banjo left is inlet to injection pump as it is my only way at present to measure fuel pressure .

idle pressure is up 2 psi , cruising on the highway at 70-75 is up 2 psi and the first test i tryed with the PE in hot 3 and no va the pressure didn't go below 5 , but at about 70 the rear broke loose and kicked out because the road was wet , so that stopped all testing . i did put on the VA and it is still the same pressures as with just DD3's like prior testing also reveled .

to install

next will be to add a pre pump back at the tank before i relocate this one to the rear .

[This message has been edited by Mopar-muscle (edited 03-30-2001). ]

 

[csutton7]

pres 10--when does this temporary loss happen--driving, idling or ???? give us some more info--

I thought Mopar Muscle posted something about the rebuild kit on one of the more recent threads he startd--go check 'em out--if not he'll probably give you the info shortly--

And yes Mopar Muscle is going the hard route to the benefit of all to show what can be gained at each stage of modification--and his info is excellent--I don't think we can thank him enuff--

I'm still looking for that perfect fuel filter filter/water separator/heater and so is Brandon--there are some out there that will most definitely work, but they are tall buggers which make installation before the pump a problem--I'll keep ya posted---chris

 

[pres10]

csutton7 -- My pump may loose electric power at any time. The truck may die at idle, or at highway speeds ..... it may run for days, 10 miles or may not go 100 yards. DC can find no problems ... I am not surprised by that. At present I have a 12 volts source running to it when ignition is on, fused of course. Since doing so the truck has never failed, I have also replaced the fuel pump due to low pressure ..... the old one was 2 to 3 lbs. at idle ..... ZERO at cuise. New pump is 13 at idle and 6 to 7 at cruise ..... 3 at WOT. So I am leaving the blue box turned off until I get a second fuel pump up and going.

I never saw this posted but it may help some people to get some fuel pressure readings. I used an old R-12 freon hose from my A/C manifold guages and adapted it to another pressure guage. The R-12 hose will screw right to the schrader valves on my 2K. I can then tape the guage to my windshield as a temporary check on pressures while driving ... until I get a guage installed in the truck

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2K Auto, 354 gears, VA and BLUE box, 4" exhaust, Auto Meter EGT and 60# Boost Guage, pressure lock,(soon to be replaced by DTT VB and TC) every option but the sliding rear window and snow plow prep. and sport package

 

[Mopar-muscle]

well guys the road dryed up today and i got to do some driving over the speed limit . with everything on warp 7 my fuel pressure will not go below 5. 5 psi , that was doing well over 100 . though its not the 10 psi i would like to see it does show that the stock lift pump is rated less than the carter HP pump in GPH and secondly that the stock fuel lines and pickup tibe will supply enough fuel for a 500 plus flywheel HP #ad


of course now that i have enough fuel pressure , i do have a new problem #ad
EGT #ad
it goes up as fast as the speedo .

tomorrow on the dyno will be the tale o' the tape .

pres10 , i did post the number for the rebuild kit , but your pump may be a bit more than worn , maybe the motor id burnt up some .

as far as adding a second pump closer to the tank , i'll be doing that this week .

 

[CannonBall]

Mopar, now that I have my fuel pressure gauge installed, the lowest reading that I get is 9. 5 pounds.

My mods are the DDStage1's, VA and the boost module.

I did drill the banjo fittings to 3/16's.

I too was considering the extra pump but I am not sure that it is necessary in my case.

 

[pres10]

Mopar, I did do a lot of checking and am sure that my old pump is functioning propperly except for low pressure ..... although it does have 65K miles on it. I definitely have an intermitant problem with getting any voltage to the pump thru the factory wiring. I will look thru the old thread for th part number for a rebuild kit.
After a final thought I might also put a new second pump in line ... and keep the original for a spare.

Thanks for responding, you have been a great help #ad


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2K Auto, 354 gears, VA and BLUE box, 4" exhaust, Auto Meter EGT and 60# Boost Guage, pressure lock,(soon to be replaced by DTT VB and TC) every option but the sliding rear window and snow plow prep. and sport package

 

[csutton7]

pres 10--have you tried to use the factory pump wire to power a relay--maybe you should, cuz if you do this and you get the same problem it would be something electrical most definitely-eventhough I'd say you have something quirky happening with your electrical pump wire already--this test would back up your belief & tell you for sure that the electrical circuit is wacky---chris

 

[WyoJim]

These may be dumb questions, but I will ask them any way.

If I mount a second pump on the frame in front of the tank, and into the OEM line, can I run either pump by its self, or do I have to run both pumps all the time? I am an old drag racer and my electric pump was back by the tank and the car ran whether the electric pump was on or not.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

no question is dumb jim , yes you could run either alone , but if you want to do that then you should put a 15 psi pump back at the tank also and that may not be a good idea as the big restriction i now have to deal with is the stock fuel filter ... i havve a pump that can supply 110gph feeding a filter than can only flow less than 50 gph .

i finally have the truck back and i wasn't thinking and filled the tank so it won't be till next week that i can drop it and plumb a second line , and next friday i'm off to abbotsford for Dyno days , will not return till 4/28 .

i know there are alot of guys waiting on this , sorry for the delays . i have one more line to replace so i have no banjos and i did get the rebuild kit from carter for the stock pump .

 

[B. Gill]

yes jim you can run either as MM said, keep one thing in mind however, you can run the one that you installed near the tank in any which way you want without any problems but when you will shut the stock pump down there maybe some error or check engine type messages shown as the ECM does get signals from the stock pump meaning if it is hooked up or not as well as if it is drawing any current etc etc. aslo dont use the power from the stock pump to run both at the same tyme as it will over load the supplying circuit but you can use it thru a relay however.
bob

 

[WyoJim]

Thanks Mopar Muscle, That is good news.

I tour all over the country and will be going back east in May and I don't want to be sitting along I-90 with a lift pump gone. A spare already hooked up and ready seems like good insurance, and may save the injector pump also.

Another dumb question. Which line on the frame is the feed line and which is the return line?

My local NAPA has a Carter pump, but it uses hose connecters by the looks of it. Is this a problem with diesel fuel? Or should I just buy a replacement OEM and put it back by the tank with compression fittings?

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98. 5 24 valve auto, QC, LB, EZ, DTT vb 9 1/2ft 3500# slide in S&S Camper

 

[Jetson]

I was NOT able to run only one pump when i had both hooked up. I would see good pressure until I started the truck, then it would drop to 2 psi at idle. The pump could not suck enough fuel through the new pump to keep up with the engine. So, I tried running only the new pump by the tank since I have heard they push better than pull. Same result, 2 psi at idle. This is with the stock Carter pump and the new Carter P4601HP. They only way to have 2 pumps and only run one at a time is to split the fuel line into 2 lines right before the lift pump and then back into one line after the pump. This has an added benefit for high HP applications since you could run both at once. I did run both at once for a week, while I had the 2 in series. I had 18 psi at idle and 16 psi wide open.

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99 2500 QC, LWB, 5spd, 3. 54 limited slip, Intense Blue, 275HP Injectors
Tow Lite trailer
96 KTM 360 EXC
99 Durango 4x4 360cid

 

[WyoJim]

Jetson, Now thats bad news. Maybe in my situation I should just buy another OEM and carry it with me. Then when the one on the truck dies I can replace it on the spot.

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98. 5 24 valve auto, QC, LB, EZ, DTT vb 9 1/2ft 3500# slide in S&S Camper

 

[Mopar-muscle]

thanks for that update jetson , i knew that fuel would pass thru one but wasn't sure how much of a restreiction there would be . can that thought .

jim , what i plan to do is put either the stock or another carter HP up at the engine stock location , leave all the stock plumbing in place excet where it connects to the tank and fuel filter or injection pump ( haven't decided which yet). then i'm going to install a carter HP back at the tank with seperate lines and a y block to the tank pickup and possibly with a couple of shutoff valves and probably anotherr Y block at the engine connection with 2 more shutoff valves . the pump on the engine will not be powered , the lines shutoff and i will run on the pump at the back . if that rear mounted pump dies i will be back on the road in about 10 minutes with the engine mounted pump . a bit anal but i won't be left stranded ... now if i could figure out a way to do this with transmission parts ... . #ad

 

[B. Gill]

jim, you can do it the way you said electrically but ask Mopar Muscle or Csutton7 if pumps can be hooked up in series and still be able to run one at a time i think that in that configuration it cant be done which is that both need to be running at the same time but i could be wrong if you plan to hook them up in series then it is better to use the power from stock pump to trigger the relay as both pumps will come on at the same time and give the injector pump enough fuel. the other possibility is to hook them up in parallel then you can run either one or both at a time. ask MM and chris they have a lot of experience with pumps.
bob

 

[Arcticat]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would anybody want to run the OEM and the new pump at the same time? What are you accomplishing by doing this? You can get GREAT pressure and volume out of one tank mounted pump. Keep thinkg simple is my advice. Mount the new pump, run a new line from the pump to the filter and to the tank pickup. Use the stock wiring (unpluged) to trigger a relay for the new pump. (It won't trip an engine light). If it ever craps out, plug the OEM wiring back into the stock pump, reconnect the banjo fitting at the filter inlet, and snap the stock supply line quick-connect back on the tank pickup - done, you are back on the road. All that's needed is a screwdriver and adjustable wrench. Or do it with two Y-blocks and a few ball valves like MM is doing and you won't need any tools at all to get back on the road.