Installing A VE Pump (timing question)

[Greenleaf]

It's time I swallow some pride and ask for clearification... ...



I'm installing this experimental VE which is not locked into any particular position i. e. timing/degree of plunger lift etc.



If I understand this right I'll turn the key-way slot in pump's drive shaft to fire the # 1 cylinder and install it onto the engine @ TDC



How about setting the plunger lift? Does that "have" to be done. In other words, turn pump to fire #1 cylinder and then use the dial to set the plunger lift @ 1. 7mm lift, then lock it in????????



I sure don't want to have to remove the pump once it's in place and connected :{ I worry that not setting plunger lift, I will not be able to obtain the 1. 6/1. 7 mm lift by turning the pump on it's mount.



I generally set timing by ear but this pump is not set to any point in the firing order, hense no starting point... ... ...



Thanks guys



GL

 

[1stgen4evr]

pump timing

Not at all sure what you have but the only VEs that I have installed have a key and a slot in the gear so you can't miss. If you can't get the timing in the range of the slots in the pump, you have to move the gear, which means take the cover off. The old A series engine on the other hand has no key and no slot and you can definitely screw up on those.



I doubt this helps but best of luck on the project.



James

 

[cerberusiam]

Once the pump is installed it is unlocked. The reason the pump is locked is to preserve the timing set. If you set the engine up at TDC with the timing pin and install a pump that is locked it should put you about stock specs. But of course that is not what you want.



If you set the engine at TDC then install the pump with the key aligned to the drive gear you should be in the ball park. If I remember what Mark said in a previous thread the above should work. You might want to PM him or PB and verify that.



Once you have the timing close you will have to find true TDC and set your plunger lift to the spec you want. Have fun.



If you are going to be playing it might save you some time and hassle to find your true TDC and mark the damper pulley for the next test.

 

[Greenleaf]

I read a post somewhere that Mark said timming the pump to the engine is no biggy. I think I saved that... ... ...



The book tells you that the engine will have to be @ TDC. This we know. It also states the pump you get wether rebuilt or exchange will be locked and set for proper timing. OK, but I rebuilt this pump and it wasn't set when I recieved it. Besides it's been apart and I'll need some way to obtain the 1. 7mm lift @ TDC



Maybe I need to look at some old threads. Or maybe I'm missing something like, it don't matter ???



-S

 

[dpuckett]

Scott-

It DOES matter, a great deal. Get the pump on the housing, key in the notch, and find true TDC. Then rotate the engine back about 30-45deg. Insert your dial indicator (which you should have within a week) and zero it. Turn the engine toward TDC, and stop when you get to TDC. The amount the needle moved is your timing @ TDC. If you are too advanced, move the pump downward on the gear housing, and vice versa. The needle will move as you move the pump. On this particular gauge, I rotated the engine back to -45deg, and rechecked it to make double sure. Sometimes it doesnt want to retract fully under its own power.



Daniel

 

[MMiller]

I thought I read here that when removing a pump to turn the pump gear so the key is up?or down? so that the key does not end up in the cover. Not really important to have the engine at TDC as the pump will go back on the same spot. Basically the pump will only go into the gear one way, and then once its in and locked to the gear you find TDC #1 and check your pump timing and set it. Am I off base hear guys? I have pulled pumps before, but never on a cummins. I have had them off Perkins, and John Deeres, but this is differnt. Also with what I was doing is you just set it to spec, no "tweaking" for performance.



I was just under the impression that the pump can only go on one way, when you have it there you turn the pump to get your timing where you want it.



Sorry if I get confusion going here.



Michael

 

[JLEONARD]

I've had them off of Perkins also... they don't care where they are.

I've had the VE off on an old VW... there was a proceedure to go thru to make sure the engine, camshaft and the pump (via the timing belt) were all timed together.

 

[Greenleaf]

OK guys... I think I have this figured out. It don't matter where/how you R & R then pump. The Cummins manual makes this pump R & R sound like darn rocket science. :-{}



We are going to give it a go... ... ... ... ..... Hey Bill..... hand me that 10mm wrench will ya!!!





GL

 

[Greenleaf]

This is the short version.



The engine was turned to position the key @ 2:00 position. It prevents the key from dislodging and you can see it there while installing the pump's shaft into drive gear.



The pump was installed and set to "just about right position" (The timing markes in the advanced position. )



The engine ran very well.



The manual stresses that the engine is set to TDC on #1 and the pump (which has been timed by the bosch authorized repair center :-laf ) is set into place and unlocked at the approporiate moment.





Michael you are correct, the pump dosn't care at what location you remove and reinstall it. In fact the pump shaft and the engine can be turned independently and the key way will still ensure proper alignment.



Darn Cummins book had Bill and I both scratching our heads on this one.



Thanks for all the replies guys.



GL

 

[MMiller]

I can see where #1 tdc and locked pump is important on an engine, like some deeres, cats, because there is no key. The pump can be installed anywhere. 3208's are a pain, because of the slack in the gear train, and timing pin holes being a little loose. You can have everything pinned but when you check timing after locking the gear, you can have the pump retarded, then it will run like crap. As if a 3208 ever runs right anyway



Glad to see you guys got it all up and running, I going to have to make a trip out to indiana and take a ride in a bombed first gen.



Michael