Intake Manifolds and mpg

[IRoss]

Is replacing the stock intake manifold in an effort to make the engine breathe a little better a viable way to increase fuel mileage? I would like to hear what sort of difference that an aftermarket one will make in egt and boost differences... I am also wanting to piece in an 4"dp(right now I have a 3. 5"). I dont really have a problem with egt's except in hot summer weather,though they will climb pretty quick standing on it in 5th, most of my pump tinkering has avoided the full fuel screw, but I would like to get a little more top end (18-2000 rpm) without adding too much more fuel... . i will be replacing my intercooler this summer and i want to do a fairly compete job on the whole intake system while I'm at it... . Also, will I have to replace the drivers side intake pipe(from I/C to manifold) as well or can I use one from a 2nd gen. . what about a manfold from a 2nd or 3rd gen, are they any better that my stock one now? Thanx to all... .

 

[MPalmer]

im also wonderin how much of a difference a newer Intake Manifold would make cuz i have a Intake Manifold off my buddys 3rd gen when he put a ats Manifold on his pickup he gave me the old one.

 

[dpuckett]

I havent looked real closely at the 3rd Gens horns, but the 2ndGen 12V looks like a good upgrade from stock. Just make sure you have the 3" piping all the way around.



IRoss, what are you talking about the top end being 18-2000 RPM? I'd think of that as low to mid range, with "higher RPM" or "top end" being 2500+.



Daniel

 

[IRoss]

I guess top end would be the wrong term, how about '"pulling up through" that rpm range... .

 

[dpuckett]

Takes fuel to make power, though some airflow improvements can help with EGts, allowing the use of more fuel. Sounds like you need to do some AFC adjustments.



Daniel

 

[DODGEDADDIE]

Any one put on an aftermarket intake horn ,,while using GENO'S remote fuel filter adapter??

If so does eveything still clear,,etc???



Mike In Maine

 

[HBarlow]

Increasing intake or exhaust flow WILL NOT increase power until you reach power output levels of approximately 450 hp and even at that power level it would give only minor improvements.

Increasing air flow is gasoline engine technology that does not apply to a diesel. Power production of a diesel is done by increasing fueling and boost.

 

[Bob4x4]

Adding flow in the correct amount DOES add performance

In any engine! I have dyno charts from testing

Done on my truck and those of friends

With other mods and stockers also.

The power per dollar is of course less in most cases

Every engine builder will have his favorite

Package for different price and power level

 

[glhs]

I will disagree with HBarlow.



That is like saying our Dodges came from the factory with maximum possible airflow capabilities and no improvement can be done to increase power.



For example; If a fellow had a bone stock 1st gen CTD (any year), changed the turbo to a PDR HX35 with 14 cm housing, 4" exhaust and Banks intercooler I guarantee you it will accelerate faster and tow faster than stock. This is an increase of power without increasing fuel.



How do I know? I did this.



The result of changing to an intake horn would be very minimal on a stock engine and the benefits would increase slightly with a lot more fuel but, I would first just eliminate the grid heater and check your results against the pyro and boost guages.



I am running the 3. 5" intake horn from Banks.



They all seem to fit, but as far as the fuel filter gizmo being in the way, I have no idea.



IMHO, I would use an intake horn from a 98. 5-02 engine; smaller than a p-pump version yet flows more air than a 1st or 3rd gen version. I would recommend this to anyone who is willing to modify the after intercooler piping to 3".

 

[HBarlow]

Adding flow in the correct amount DOES add performance
In any engine! I have dyno charts from testing
Done on my truck and those of friends
With other mods and stockers also.
The power per dollar is of course less in most cases
Every engine builder will have his favorite
Package for different price and power level

Bob,

When I read test reports in the TDR written by Joe Donnelly who holds a Ph. D. and your opinion posted here it is a no brainer for me. You and your dyno charts don't do much for me.

It seems to me that you lack a fundamental understanding of how diesel engines and gasoline engines differ in making power but if buying aftermarket equipment makes you feel faster, so be it.

 

[HBarlow]

I will disagree with HBarlow.

That is like saying our Dodges came from the factory with maximum possible airflow capabilities and no improvement can be done to increase power.

For example; If a fellow had a bone stock 1st gen CTD (any year), changed the turbo to a PDR HX35 with 14 cm housing, 4" exhaust and Banks intercooler I guarantee you it will accelerate faster and tow faster than stock. This is an increase of power without increasing fuel.

How do I know? I did this.

The result of changing to an intake horn would be very minimal on a stock engine and the benefits would increase slightly with a lot more fuel but, I would first just eliminate the grid heater and check your results against the pyro and boost guages.

I am running the 3. 5" intake horn from Banks.

They all seem to fit, but as far as the fuel filter gizmo being in the way, I have no idea.

IMHO, I would use an intake horn from a 98. 5-02 engine; smaller than a p-pump version yet flows more air than a 1st or 3rd gen version. I would recommend this to anyone who is willing to modify the after intercooler piping to 3".

Please tell us how you measured the increase in acceleration and etc.

 

[ENafziger]

Boost is simply a measure of restriction in the air flow stream. Thus, on a stock truck with no modifications, more boost means more airflow. However, it is completely possible (and doable) to lessen the restrictions of airflow in/out of the engine, with the effect of increasing mass air flow, while maintaining or even decreasing boost. The ways this can be done are numerous, including utilizing a less restrictive turbine housing or exhaust manifold, less restrictive intake manifold, less restrictive charge air cooler and/or piping, porting the cylinder head, machining off the cast intake on the head and replacing with custom, using a less restrictive air filter, etc.

An engine is most simply an air pump... and the more efficiently the air can be moved through the engine, the lower the pumping losses are going to be.

Will an intake manifold give more power? Will it allow more airflow? Will it help efficiency? Well, it depends.

The OEM setup seems to do a decent job of flowing air at the stock 135 rear wheel hp level. However, double or triple or whatever that power level, and at some point, cramming all that extra air in there will create more restriction... and at this point, minimizing that place(s) of restriction will help in power and efficiency!

Replacing the stock intake horn with an larger one cannot hurt performance, with the exception of increasing turbo lag in the extreme case; however, whether or not real-world benefits can be realized depends entirely on the restrictions in the rest of the air stream as well as the power level of the engine.

--Eric

 

[glhs]

With a g-tech, pulling loads, everyday driving, etc. Believe me, the g-tech is a pretty impressive unit!



If you want go down the "Joe D. has Ph. D. " road then I guess all the Banks brochures are incorrect too!



They have way more testing done by increasing airflow without fuel and showing increases in power.



Joe D. also once stated that ve pumps can't make much more than 350 hp, porting cylinder heads does not increase power, etc, all of which does not hold true.



The point is you can get more power out of our trucks without adding fuel simply by making them more efficient because they are not at their peak coming from the factory. Turbos, cams, cylinder heads, intake horns, exhaust will do this.

 

[MChrist]

But I think the original question is about intake manifold increasing mpg. Simply put... no. Sorry.

 

[glhs]

Going back to the OP, on a 1st gen at his power level probably not. I would play with advancing the timing as much as possible to find the results he is looking for.



On 3rd gen trucks, they do benefit mpg and spool up wise with an aftermarket intake horn.

 

[HBarlow]

With a g-tech, pulling loads, everyday driving, etc. Believe me, the g-tech is a pretty impressive unit!

That is no answer. What is the answer to my question? How did you measure the results?

If you want go down the "Joe D. has Ph. D. " road then I guess all the Banks brochures are incorrect too!

Banks brochures are for the purpose of convincing the gullible to believe and sell their products. Joe's scientific testing and reporting has been to test products and report the facts.

They have way more testing done by increasing airflow without fuel and showing increases in power.

Joe D. also once stated that ve pumps can't make much more than 350 hp, porting cylinder heads does not increase power, etc, all of which does not hold true.

And how have you proven Joe is wrong?

The point is you can get more power out of our trucks without adding fuel simply by making them more efficient because they are not at their peak coming from the factory. Turbos, cams, cylinder heads, intake horns, exhaust will do this.

No, the point is nothing you have written can be demonstrated by actual testing. You prefer to believe what you have written which is simply your opinion.

American history is full of old stories of people being conned by salesmen. Long ago it was snake oil salesmen selling colored water off the back of a horsedrawn wagon. Now it is aftermarket manufacturers with glossy colored ads in magazines.

 

[cerberusiam]

Its really kinda funny how a 4 year old post generates such a discussion so long after inception. :-laf:-laf



Wow! Things must be really slow. Oo.

 

[JLEONARD]

Exceptionally slow in the 3rd gen section I guess. :-laf

 

[glhs]

No, the point is nothing you have written can be demonstrated by actual testing. You prefer to believe what you have written which is simply your opinion... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

The actual test results are available for the world to see. You are the one who refuses to believe.



Do not persist in your unbelief HBarlow; make some airflow improvements and believe!

 

[HBarlow]

Sorry, I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny either.

A gasoline engine works like an air pump. A diesel engine does not.

A gasoline engine can only produce combustion when stoichmetric balance or the precise ratio of air to fuel is maintained. That ratio is about 14 parts air to 1 part gaoline. In order to produce more power a gasoline engine must flow more air so that it can burn more fuel. If more fuel is injected without greater air flow it only produces a richer mixture and less power.

A diesel engine, on the other hand, requires no such ratio therefore does not require more air flow to produce more power.

A gasoline engine must suck in air and also suck in the precise mixture of gasoline then compress the mixture before firing it with a spark.

Diesel combustion takes place by compressing the air sucked into the cylinder then injecting fuel. If greater performance is desired more fuel is injected. The engine has no need to ingest more air, only to use greater boost to make the air more dense and more fuel to make the combustion event more powerful.

Some of you guys believe too many glossyi product advertisements while having no understanding of the engines you are bolting the parts on.