2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Intermittent Electrical Problem-- NEED HELP!!!!

[KKlingbeil]

Hey guys!!

Its been awhile since I have been on here, and I have been searching threads today trying to find similar issues. Here is what is going on.



Randomly, when I actuate my power windows from the drivers door, either driver's side window or passenger's side window, all hell breaks loose, electronically speaking. When I hit the window switch, the ABS light, BRAKE light, and Airbag light come on, the blower fan stops, and the speedometer stops. Assuming I stop touching the window switches, it comes back to life in around 5 seconds or less with no lights on anymore. This randomly happens, so it doesn't happen every time I use the windows, and it doesn't stay on or have lasting effects.



I have pulled the rubber boot off that goes between Drivers side door and cab to look for bad wires with no luck. I next pulled drivers side door panel off and un-taped the harness to look for shorts, cracks, wear spots etc, with no luck at all. Everything looks perfect!!! It sure seems like something is shorting out somewhere but I can't find anything. Could it be the PCM causing problems??



What do you guys think?? I have a trip coming up in a few weeks of about 2000 miles, and really hate this intermittent problem!!! Any help is greatly appreciated in advance!!!!



Kevin

 

[HHhuntitall]

Could easily be a ground issue under the dash or from chassis to battery... .

 

[KKlingbeil]

Thanks for the response! Any idea where and how many ground points under the dash there are?? I have looked under there with the kick panel removed, but don't specifically remember seeing any ground points.
I didn't remove and clean, but the ground from PCM to Chassis is tight and doesn't look bad. Issues like this drive me insane!! I would rather just find a broken wire so I can fix it!!
Any other ideas for things to check??

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

 

[budnate]

see if it does the same with the passenger switch for the heck of it... has it been wet back there? your window/lock switch may be loaded with water and shorting, or worn out, they can be popped open and cleaned and looked over if your handy.

 

[KKlingbeil]

Budnate,

I did replace the window/ door lock switch in drivers side door as the first thing. It worked great for a day maybe and then it started in again.

Anything in steering column that could cause this??

I just can't figure out why so many things are related to the window switch!?!?!



Next time it acts up I'll try the passenger door switch to see what they do!

Thanks again guys!



Kevin

 

[bry1216]

Hey Kevin,



We need a wiring schematic to find which ground wire is in common with these items. It sure sounds like a short, because all the open light circuits you described are closing at one time. The fan and speedo turning off are a closed circuit opening up.



Have any modifications been completed with Scotch Clips on wiring under the dash? Folks use the clips to add electronics, but they actually cut through the insulation and into the wire. Over time vibration will cause a complete cut of the wire. It is a cheap installation with electronic nightmares later on.



I only have a wiring schematic of the engine area. Get me a schematic and I will review it for you. Email it to: -- email address removed --



Bryan

 

[HHhuntitall]

IN thinking on this, I'm going to wager it's not two rubbed wires... . I'm going to guess it's a loss of power to the electronics in the dash... . The window motor is pulling too much power to allow it to still feed to the dash... . Is the window slower than normal?



If that is the case, it's most likely a ground. There should be a ground under the dash to the firewall above the kick panel, IIRC. I'll have to look at the schematics myself, as I'm not certain. It's possible the wire feed to the window motor switches has been rubbed and it's grounding out when feeding the motors, overheating a relay... . but strange, as the power feeds to the dash and windows are on seperate circuits... . Albiet, the circuits run very close together in the ignition switch.....

 

[KKlingbeil]

Bryan,
I am trying to locate a schematic. Would they be in the service manual?? I have a friend of a friend who is a service manager at the dealership here in Des Moines. I'll see if he can find me some schematics.
As for the scotch clips, no I don't believe any are used under the dash. Any little things I have added, I grounded directly to a sheet metal screw in some framework for the kick panel area. I will look into this further tomorrow. Is it worth pulling the steering column apart to look for any visible signs of issues there to? It's not too hard and I've had it off plenty before, so I'll probably take a look anyway.

HHhuntitall,
No, the window either works perfect and as expected, or it won't move at all and all the dash lights come on, blower and speedo shut off. Normally all back to normal after 5 seconds maybe. One time the speedo and fan stayed off for around 1 minute. Then drive for another 5-10 minutes and everything works perfect again. Very frustrating!!!!!

I was just thinking out loud that maybe the window motor has a bad spot in it or worn out brushes or something that is causing a lot of extra current draw, but you wouldn't think that both drivers side and passengers side would both have bad spots and be there at the same time. Pretty far fetched so I'll move on, just thinking out loud.

I'll work on locating a schematic and give this another good looking at tomorrow. Hopefully I can find something loose, broken, disconnected, worn, etc. I don't like mysteries!!!

Thanks again guys!

Kevin

 

[KKlingbeil]

Talked to a Service manager over lunch at the dealership. He first said they have seen some wear in the door harness where it pivots. I have already checked that and it literally looks brand new with NO signs of wear. So he then said if I can't find any wiring type issues then it is most likely the instrument panel itself, or the PCM body computer. I really don't want to throw parts at this thing with out knowing what is causing problems... . Hopefully I can find something under the kick panel or steering column that will point some fingers.

Any other thoughts are always welcome!!!
Thanks,
Kevin

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well, what I had in mind was a common ground... If you pull the window switch out of the passenger side, neither will work, IIRC. What gets me is what's the common link to the dash components. At this point, all I see in the schematic is the main power feed to the interior fuse panel and key switch as common to the windows and blower motor, and the ground to all... . I'm curious what's happening. Sounds like it's overheating a power feed relay through some short of fuse, but where? :-laf Like you haven't thought that... .



Have you tried running a ground wire from under the dash frame directly to the battery negative and test it? Probably at least a 12ga. There should be a main ground there somewhere under the dash above the e-brake mount, too.