Is Novell Dead?

[Doc Tinker]

Here I am, 51 years old and ready to go back to school to build on my new career. The counselor at the private college I'm probably going to go to says Novell is on it's way out and the closest campus that I can take Novell classes are in Flint, MI, about a 1/2 hour from home and 3/4 hour from work.



My dillema. .



The school district where I work just upgraded to Netware 5. 1, so they aren't going to be replacing it with Cisco or Windows 2000 any time soon, if ever.



The school district where I work will probably never pay me what I was making as a bus mechanic, even if I become a Certified Novell Engineer.



The school district where I work has started buying new systems with Windows 2000 Pro installed, and I can already see that 2000 Pro does not like Neware 5. 1



I need to learn more about Windows 2000 because I've found that what I know about Windows 95 and 98 doesn't apply to Windows 2000 to a large degree



I'll probably be 55 by the time I finish getting certified. At 55, I will be five years away from retirement from the school district, if I don't take an early retirement.



I wonder if there is a place for a bald headed 55+ year old geek in an industry where 20-some year olds are more energetic than "that old fart over there"





What I have going for me. .



Workers Comp makes up the difference between what I made as a bus mechanic and what the school district pays me now and will continue even if the school district pays me more, up to the point of what I used to make.



Workers Comp will pay for the classes



The school district will let me take classes during work hours





Help me decide. .



If I should focus on getting certified as a Microsoft Systems Engineer, which will show me what I need to know about Windows 2000 Pro for my current job, and would prepare me for a job away from the school district



If I should bite the bullet and stick it out at the school district, get the Novell Engineer Certificate and accept a low income for the kids sake and think of it as my contribution to society.



If I should say "screw it" and milk my way to retirement and learn what I need to know to get the job done the same way I've learned most everything in life, by scratching my head and kicking it around until it works, which has served me well over the past year as I learned how to do many of the basics in Netware.





Doc

 

[GLASMITHS]

DANG, I WISH i WAS JUST 51!!! wHAT A LIFE

 

[lgibson]

Doc, I know what you are going through. I was a heavy equipment mechanic and an EMT on the side. I was in a motor vehicle accident and can't return to labor type work. Workers Comp. was going to send me to school for Networking. This boy did not know a thing about computers and has no interest in them. I like getting dirty and find a problem and fix it. Not running wires and typing. After a year of job hunting without ever getting one call back and checking every type of job there is. Did you know some department stores has people that do Bra fittings? I got turned down for that one too. :{ :{



I was only 27 at the time and did not want any job other than mechanic jobs. Five years to the day I started school for dispatching. It was hands on training, no class room other than keyboarding class. I learn much better hands on than sitting listen to some instructor yak all day long. You probably are the same way, hands on training. Six years to the day I started my first job as a dispatcher. I work at a college and pay is less than 1/3 of what I was making as a mechanic. But it is fun and I work with great people. I



You need to write down the disadvantages and advantages of each. What are you going to do with your new skill? Keep the same job and get the same pay after you spend two years or so going to school? I met a lot of people in job clubs that were great with computers, IE; programmers, A+ certified, net-workers, and such. You know they were competing with over 25,000 other people trying for one job? It is your choice what you do and how it will affect you.

 

[illflem]

Doc, I wouldn't worry much about being "that old fart over there". What the youngsters have in energy you more than make up for in wisdom. They will respect you for it.

 

[JConley]

An MCSE is going to be the most usefull getting you past the HR people that are looking for a person with that box checked. Once you get to the IT people, they could care less about certification. For the most part, they are interested in what you know, not what test you took.



To me, MCSE stands for Must Call Someone Else. Its a start, but experience is worth a lot more. Getting certified in Novell is not as valuable as an MCSE.



Cisco Certificatoin is worth far more than an MCSE. Its also a lot harder.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Happy little hummer of a thread here...

Coming up on 52 years of age and loosing my job in the next few months. For fifteen out of the last nineteen years, my specialty has been research and production control of silicon crystal growth. Something done at maybe a half dozen or so domestic locations. I hated writting code in school. With the dot-com flop, lots of egg heads out of work. My farm does mostly pay ****. Think I'll go have a drink and mull this over some.

 

[JHerrlich]

JConley is right. But the only problem with getting any certifications nowdays is that because of all the layoffs here in Kalifornia, the market has been flooded with very experienced networkers. I'm a victim of this myself. I got laid off in September (on the 11th coincedentally), and have had a very hard time finding work. I was about to do a serious career change and almost had a job as a Dialisys Technician and a day before the interview, I got recalled back to active duty in the Marine Corps (I thought I got out back in '99). Now that I'm back out, I'm still looking pretty hard for work and haven't had much luck.



Anyway, in the situation you're in, I would go with the MCSE. If they're going to send you to school, you'll have a chance to actually learn something instead of just studying to pass the exam. That knowledge will be far more valuable to you with Novell networking because they are just drivers that ride on top of Windows 2000/XP. The Novell server stuff isn't really that hard as long as you read the manuals. They're usually pretty good at telling you exactly what you need to do. Just watch out for SAPs on a flat network. They're a killer.

 

[JLinder]

Well Doc, I can't help you much.

I can tell you that our IT guy doesn't know his dirt-hole from a hole in the ground and does just fine at getting a paycheck every month. Maybe you could fake it?



On the other hand, there's always male prostitution... (just kidding. unless... )

 

[Todd G]

I'm an MCSE and Cisco CCNA and neither means dirt with the current economy. The market is flooded with paper MCSE's. You know the one's that went to a week-long school that teaches you how to pass the cert tests. Here in Arizona, they teach Cisco in high school so when you graduate you have a CCNA. This did more to hurt the salary than you can imagine. Who's going to pay an 18 year old kid $55K? And by the way, the Cisco certification is WAY easier to get than the MCSE! I've talked to several employment agencies this week and all told me to get a new career.

 

[athompson]

I have been in IT for over 20 years and in IT management for over 15 years. I started programming, went to PC hardware, then to networking. I am currently the manager in charge of the networking and PC support for a multi-jurisdictional, publicly traded casino company.



I was very much a Novell die-hard until I upgrade to Netware 5. 1. Even Novell couldn't get it working right. I dumped it and replaced all of our Netware servers with Windows 2000 servers. While Windows 2000 server hasn't always worked right, at least Microsoft could help us to get it working.



Over the years, I have hired a several "certified" employees. I had to fire one after a month and it took 3 months to clean up after him. By far, the best network engineers and PC support people I have EVER hired have made their living as mechanics in the past. They already know how to troubleshoot!



My take is that you should take advantage of EVERY opportunity you have. Since you can get your MCSE education paid for and get paid to do it, do it now. In addition to this, you should invest in the equipment necessary to set up a network in your home. You will need to do MUCH more than just go to class and get the paper.



By the way, we just hired a 61 year old, who started this week, at one of our properties. He's even making more money than the "youngster" he replaced. There IS hope.



If you have the opportunity to get any Cisco training, jump on it. Cisco certification tends to mean more than most.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

I manage the Windows 2000 administrators at a large corporation. I have 20 years experience that has covered every desktop OS and network that's been around.



We just acquired a new plant in Omaha, NE. First thing we did - ripped out the Novell servers. Why? - because our standard for plants is Windows 2000.



We run OpenVMS, HP-UX and IBM AIX Unix, and have over 300 Windows 2000 servers. We have over 10,000 Windows desktop systems - Windows NT 4. 0 and Windows 2000.



We buy tier one hardware and do not have problems making Windows 2000 run. One of my administrators yesterday told me that a Windows 2000 server we installed 165 days ago has not been rebooted since.



Schools that were entrenched in MacIntosh computers are migrating to Windows.



The majority of the desktop systems around that support large commercial enterprises run Windows.



Get some experience with Windows.



I do not have a certified MCSE working for me. I have had to work with several contract MCSEs and they were not that bright.



We have a few people that dabble with BSD Unix and various flavors of Linux. It never hurts to know another OS.



20 years ago, all I knew was MS-DOS and Digital VMS.



BTW Doc, my #1 Windows Sr. System Administrator is from Flint, MI.

 

[Oxjockey]

OpenVMS? I thought we were the only dino's using that. (I don't know a THING about it)



Agreed, certification will help you impress non-technical managers, but if you can take the classes, then take them! Novell is not dead, but is dying quickly. Stick with the MCSE program with or without the certification, and you'll do fine.



Bryan

 

[willyslover]

Doc. . wish we had more time to yakk while we were back in Muncie. . I might have been able to relate some personal experiences that I had just gone thru... [the board isn't the right place to do so]... however might I suggest that you do what ever interest you the most and not what will get you the most $$ as you have your income protected because of your situation... . get some enjoyment out of the time your work life has left. . get your $$ ready for retirement and then retire early and enjoy the rest of your life doing WHAT YOU WANT TO DO... not what some settle for job has you doing

[might there be a settlement to augment your retirement $$ from your injuries that will shorten your work life preping for the retirement, hope so. ]

 

[dmurdock]

Doc, I'm not going to stand on a hill and get into a pi$$ing match about which platform sucks and which one doesn't. Instead, I will do as you ask and give you some advice...



Talk to the IT people at the school and see what their 5 and 10 year plan is, this will give you an idea of what training you should go for.







makes sense to me...







Oh yeah, and to answer the other question, No, Novell is not dead (however the number of people who actually know how to configure it without using a "setup wizard" are few and far between).

 

[Whitmore]

Doc, if there is a demand for this type of qualifications and jobs are out there than go for it. My dad always said, do what you like and like what you do , in other words if you will enjoy this type of work dont worry about the money... ... ... . happieness is more important.



How many people hate their job but are still there because it pays good ? ... ... ... ... ..... answer ... ... ..... alot

 

[Doc Tinker]

OK guys - Thanks for all your advice. You have helped me pretty much decide that I will get as much training as Workers Comp will provide as long as it doesn't cut into my fun time too much (TDR events and stuff).



I figure that I'm pretty much secure in the job, even if it means I will remain at the bottom of the food chain until I retire. I will dedicate the rest of my career giving my life to the next generation of students.



Although I have a few issues with the callous upper management, I have begun to enjoy working with many of the staff and students and I feel that they by-and-large genuinely appreciate what I have to offer.



If for some reason I must move on, I will be prepared for the next chapter of life and make the best of it.



By the way, I am now supervising a couple of college students who are working part time at the school district. This new job responsibility came to play today.



Doc

 

[CumminsPuller]

Doc try this.......

My brother-in-law hangs out here quite a bit... ... He says these guys know there sh_t and will help and answer your questions.



forums3. anandtech.com



No "www" in front of the web address.



Jason