Is ROTELLA® T Synthetic 5W-40 really Synthetic?

[RaymondSmith]

I have just spent a considerable amount of time reading synthetic oil threads. Now I'm really confused. I have seen mentioned that the only true synthetic oils are Amsoil and Royal Purple. This took me by surprise. If I look at the Rotella web site http://www.rotella.com/products/ they list two oils with synthetic in the name. One is Shell ROTELLA® T Synthetic 5W-40 and the other is Shell ROTELLA® T Synthetic-Blend.



I would say the blend is just that, synthetic blended with dino oil. The Shell ROTELLA® T Synthetic 5W-40 claims that it "is a fully synthetic heavy-duty diesel and gasoline engine oil developed especially to meet the requirements of North American driving. "



My question is how do I tell if this is a true synthetic or not? This is the oil that I plan on switiching to at my next oil change based upon believing that it is a real synthetic.



Thanks in advance!

 

[jelag]

Ray



Most brands of products make petrolem products... . a mix of petrolem and synthetic products and full synthetic products.....



All the products we use that are full synthetic..... all say... . full synthetic on the label... I can only assume this is true with shell... . BTW... . don't let the snake oil guys fool you... . Amsoil and Royal Purple aren't the only brands out there... .



I personally use a Mobil 1 product in my motorcycle... and a Scheifer Oil grease, a full syntheic product with a drop point at 475* F. (melting point) in all our clutches... and a couple of their transmission oils in some gear boxes... . but I buy their product because of how easy it is to pick up... or have shipped in... . I'm not brand loyal. .



Remember there are very strict standards for Oil, Grease, etc... thats needed to meet Cummins standards..... and I'm willing to bet that a test of the specific product would find maybe a pint of difference in 1000 gal batch of oil... . You read the MSDS sheet, and the product information and be an informed buyer... and get what you feel is best for your needs... .

 

[DSpencer]

Its been awhile back when reading through many oil threads... . like nobody knows there are many many hours of reading much of the same old stuff... . I read about some of the synthetic oils like Rotella 5-40. A number of years ago one of the oil companies was taken to court over whether it had a true synthetic oil. The charged company prevailed by showing it had an oil that while not fully synthetic its oils properties were like synthetic oil. So not all advertised synthetic oils are fully synthetic.



Today you have to look closely to see which oils are what. I do use Amsoil but probably the most used synthetic oil is the Mobil Delvac 5-40. I am using the Rotella 5-40 in my VW since I bought a case when I purchased the tdi. I already have a case of Amsoil 5-40 fully synthetic oil to start using once the Rotella is gone.



The Rotella seems to work good and since most people change oil every 4-10 thousand miles it should hold up good. I was able to buy the Amsoil at close to the price of the Rotella so I did.

 

[Diesel Nut]

Interesting find here -



From the Rotella T Synthetic MSDS -



SECTION 2 PRODUCT/INGREDIENTS



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



CAS# CONCENTRATION INGREDIENTS

Synthetic Motor Oil

Mixture 90 - 98. 99 %volume Highly refined petroleum oils

Mixture 1 - 4. 99 %volume Proprietary additives

Proprietary 1 - 4. 99 %volume Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate





I would like to draw attention to the part where it says 90-98. 99% of its volume is Highly refined petroleum oils.



See, I think that this is what Petroleum oils will become in the future, more highly refined. Bottom line is yes its more refined no its not synthetic. Synthetic by it's definition means "Made by forming a compound by combining two or more simpler compounds, elements, or radicals; human-made, not from nature"

 

[Cooker]

Synthetic Rotella T 5w40 is a Group III synthetic oil.

 

[GHarman]

I am not a Chemist. Rotella T 5W-40 is not Synthetic. Petroleum, no matter how finely refined is still Petroleum. GregH.

 

[RustyJC]

Group III oils only "earned" the right to be called synthetics after Castrol and Mobil fought it out in court. The court basically ruled that, since no legal definition of the word "synthetic" existed in the industry, the ultra-refined Group III base stock Castrol used could be marketed as a synthetic.



Depending on what the user wants, he/she would be well-advised to find out if the synthetic they're considering purchasing is a Group III (hydrocarbon) or Group IV (polyalphaolefin, or PAO) based oil.



Rusty

 

[cruiser_2]

Raymond Smith SAVE YOUR MONEY... IF you change your oil regularly there is no additional advantages for synthetic oil. I have used both and the claims for increased fuel mileage didn't come true for me. I was an Amsoil dealer at the time. I drove between 1500 and 2000 miles a week which put my oil changes at once a month with non synthetic oil and once every 7 weeks with a synthetic. I do my own oil changes and really the savings never added up with the synthetic. I ran Amsoil for almost a year which gave it a really good opportunity to deliver its potential. The only thing I ever saw noticably was the fact that the oil pressure dropped significantly at idle and never managed to ever get above 50 PSI and in hot weather rarely got to that point.



NOW that said if you want to use synthetic go ahead and use it... but beware of claims of increased fuel mileage and longevity of engines. I have over 480,000 miles on my truck and I can assure you that Rotella 15W-40 will give you excellent service if you change it at recommended intervals. been changing mine every 7000 miles since new other than the experiment with Amsoil for a year and will go anywhere in my truck now with no hesitation.



Amsoil is not real snake oil... . but then again it may not be worth the additional expense.

 

[BK]

From the reading I did, my simple understanding of it is...



The lawsuit was against those that had a base of dino oil, they didn't refine it, but processed it to "crack the molecule" (what ever that means) to totally change the hi temp characteristics so it performed as well or better then a fully synthesized (man made oil in a lab) oil.



They did win the case, it was Castrol that took on the battle and won.

(A tid bit I read in a marketing paper is that Castrol is the oil brand of choice over in Austrial by the over the road train truckers. )

So now a synthetic oil is an oil that is totally man made or a dino based oil that has had it's characteristic totally changed at a molecular level.





Some of the threads I've read from "oil experts" (and based on a foggy memory of what I read) said that dino oil has better sheer strength under loads such as lower mains with high pressure, thin films - compared to synthetic oils. . synthetic oils are better at high temps and film coating general parts, but has an issue wtih sheer strenght in thin film high pressure loads.



After I had read that, I thought it sorta made sense... . while we think dino oil wont flow "as well" when 1st starting in the morning, that same property, is what makes it protect the lower end bearings better. The synthetic flows at the flick of the starter.



Rear end, diff oils are modified to deal with the high pressure of the gear meshing. I think we've all seen the demo model on the counter at the parts store, turn the crank and the stack of gears turn, and watch the oil climb higher up the gears with the wiz bang additive. . well some have claimed to have had problems with the additives, blowing rears (on and oil forum). Maybe the additve reduced the sheer strength, making it climb better through the stack of gears, but reducing it's protection/effectiveness between the teeth of the gears under pressure?





So I would assume a dino based synthetic would have, or should have the best of both worlds?

 

[BigEasy]

to quote BK above:

"So now a synthetic oil is an oil that is totally man made or a dino based oil that has had it's characteristic totally changed at a molecular level. "



Umm... call me crazy, but where do you think the PAO base for synthetic oil comes from?



From good old dino oil! It all comes from the same well folks... now, I'm not saying that both products are the same, but it's just motor oil. If we were talking about rocket fuel, it would be different, but as long as you use a quality oil, filter it well, and change it regularly... the rest is simply academic.



In a race engine, things become a bit more complicated...

 

[BK]

Umm... call me crazy, but where do you think the PAO base for synthetic oil comes from?



From good old dino oil! It all comes from the same well folks... now, I'm not saying that both products are the same, but it's just motor oil. If we were talking about rocket fuel, it would be different, but as long as you use a quality oil, filter it well, and change it regularly... the rest is simply academic.



In a race engine, things become a bit more complicated...

I ain't a lub chemist or physicist, it's just what I read from a few different places.



And hence an entire lawsuit.

I have no idea what the difference is between cracking a molecule vs a "full synthetic", which is what started the lawsuit.

 

[Diesel Power]

Interesting find here -



From the Rotella T Synthetic MSDS -



SECTION 2 PRODUCT/INGREDIENTS



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



CAS# CONCENTRATION INGREDIENTS

Synthetic Motor Oil

Mixture 90 - 98. 99 %volume Highly refined petroleum oils

Mixture 1 - 4. 99 %volume Proprietary additives

Proprietary 1 - 4. 99 %volume Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate





I would like to draw attention to the part where it says 90-98. 99% of its volume is Highly refined petroleum oils.



See, I think that this is what Petroleum oils will become in the future, more highly refined. Bottom line is yes its more refined no its not synthetic. Synthetic by it's definition means "Made by forming a compound by combining two or more simpler compounds, elements, or radicals; human-made, not from nature"

good find

 

[BK]

From an article I can only see the cached version, the live link is dead. .

"Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has nearly the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. In fact, Mobil-1 is now primarily made from Group III unconventional base oils, exactly the stuff Mobil was claiming was not really synthetic. The much more expensive traditional synthetics are now available in their pure forms only in more expensive and harder to obtain oils. "



From Castrol:

"Castrol Syntec is not made from a petroleum base stock. Synthetic processing uses select crude components that are chemically converted to create molecules that are different from the starting material. Synthetic processing rearranges,builds up and breaks apart molecules.

There are many different chemical processes available to make synthetic base oil due to advances in the technology of synthetic. "



So if I'm reading this right...

A full synthetic was the 100% cracked fluid but now (and most are doing it), a synthetic has partial cracked oil in it and a base of high refined select stock components of dino fluid...



I like this quote from the 1st article. .

"In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed. "

 

[Diesel Power]

as for the one's who insist that amsoil is out of the same well---on all of amsoil's bottles it says 100% synthetic--not fully synthetic, not a blend, and definatly not good ole dino oil. does anyone else have 100% on there bottles? chances are not to good but, because of the latest law suit between castol and mobil, there may be more bottles that say this. the stupid jury and judge think that the highest refinement of petro oil is all the sudden 100% synthetic... ... ... ... ... ... . are you kiding me, synthetic means its made entirerly by a non- carbon chemicle make up, there are only a few of these, PAO,ESTER both of which are in all amsoil products.

 

[JARichard]

I run Rotella synthetic in my bike and was running it in my 03. I was in a motorcycle forum and told him to just use Rotella Synthetic. He couldn't find it in his foreign country because it was not a 100% synthetic oil. America has less stringent standards on what can and can't be called a synthetic. But I am willing to bet for the price it is way better than regular dino and not quite as great as AMSOIL.

 

[RustyJC]

In fact, Mobil-1 is now primarily made from Group III unconventional base oils, exactly the stuff Mobil was claiming was not really synthetic.

Not true - Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 are still Group IV oils with selected Group V constituents (esters and alkylated napthalene) when required for seal compatability and additive solubility, respectively.



Rusty

 

[BK]

Not true - Mobil 1 and Delvac 1 are still Group IV oils with selected Group V constituents (esters and alkylated napthalene) when required for seal compatability and additive solubility, respectively.



Rusty

I'm just quoting the article.

Things could have changed since the article?

Again a cached version is all I could get, the live link was dead, so I don't know the date the article was written.

 

[RustyJC]

Here is the base stock formulation of the more common oils on the market that are sold as synthetics:

Amsoil XL-7500 (XLF) - Group III/Hydrocracked



Amsoil (ASL) - Group IV/PAO



Mobil 1 - Group IV/PAO



Pennzoil Synthetic - Group III/Hydrocracked



Valvoline SynPower - Group III/Hydrocracked



Castrol Syntec - Group III/Hydrocracked



Quaker State Full Synthetic - Group III/Hydrocracked



Royal Purple - Group IV/PAO



Redline - Group V/Ester

Rusty

 

[2broke2smoke]

explain group V/Ester please ... i've never heard of it

 

[Diesel Power]

we are talking 100% here, not just base stock, many oils have some synthetic base to them, but what about all the additives and other "fillers" as far as i know the only 100% oils are redline and amsoil---thats it. even RP does not claim 100%