Is there a better fueling box then the Edge Drag Comp

[CMaster]

Man, I'd bet you guys get upset with newbies like me, but God love you for your patience. I would assume that a " wire-tap fuel box" is generic. Any specific brand that you could recommend? I have decided that $400 Summit exhaust was o. k. but the fuel box and gauges I just dont know ANYTHING about. Dumb as a sack of hammers here.

 

[NPloysa]

CMaster, as far as boxes go, Edge, TST, and Blue Chip come to mind. I would say Edge is the best as far most people see it, but Blue Chip (like I have) and TST have boxes with digital gauges built into them.



I bought a used Blue Chip Fuel Management System (FMS) Premium for $650. It DOES NOT have timing, but



*Has fueling increases to 63% (120 hp), in ONE percent increments



*street mode/drag mode



*4 levels of smoke control: Minimum, Less, Normal, More Performance (rate of fueling increase)



*boost readout in 1s or 10ths i. e. : 30, 31, 32 or 30. 3, 30. 4, 30. 5



*EGT readout in 5s or 1s, i. e. : 700, 705, 710, or 701, 702, 703



*VP44 pulse rate



*RPM



*Boost bargraph



*EGT bargraph



*Maximum values stored, not simultaneous, but max rpm any time, max boost any time, max EGT anytime



I think thats it. I like it, and some people that have the Edge Comp were impressed by it. Some people have had problems with their Blue Chip. All preference.



As far as install goes, two wires to the pump, EGT probe, boost plug to MAP sensor, Hobbs fuel sender with wire, hot, ground, and accessories wires are what ya need.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Allmost got em all

Originally posted by NPloysa





I think thats it.

Not to forget High limit EGT cut off and defuel safety (Selectable from 800-1300*)



One button on / off activation.



Low fuel warning / auto defuel in event.



<hr>

Originally posted by CMaster

Dumb as a sack of hammers here

#ad
OMG that is a good one I gotta use that instead of a sack of wet mice.

 

[NPloysa]

Yes, the auto defuel @ xyz EGT! Forgot that one, and the others.

 

[NPloysa]

And yes the FMS has adjust on the fly, like all the others, and a simple on/off button but one thing I really wish it had was presets. Yeah its easy to click from 63% to say 30% or what have you, but I wish it had presets for what you wanted, 2 would be plenty. How about button #1 as "More power for daily use" and then preset #2 titled "Kill ricers".



Nothing I can't live without, just would be cool!

 

[Hohn]

Originally posted by CMaster

Man, I'd bet you guys get upset with newbies like me, but God love you for your patience. I would assume that a " wire-tap fuel box" is generic. Any specific brand that you could recommend? I have decided that $400 Summit exhaust was o. k. but the fuel box and gauges I just dont know ANYTHING about. Dumb as a sack of hammers here.

When i mentioned "wire-tap" fueling box, I was referring to those power modules that require you to tap into a certain wire on the VP44 injection pump. This is different than a "timing" box that does NOT connect to the pump. A timing box is not capable of exceeding the fueling limits programmed into the ECM, so they max out at around 60hp gain.



A fueling box, however, overrides the limits in the OEM software (ECM), so they can make some serious power-- most are capable of 120 hp peak gain on standard output trucks. Off-peak they can gain as much as 160hp!



A fueling box (one that taps the wire) gives great power and the option of turning it off and adjusting it, while a timing box is always on and can't be adjust from the cab (if at all). The pluses of a fueling box come at the expense of voiding the warranty on your injection pump, which is an expensive part to replace ($1200 and up). So there's no free lunch in the HP game.



Within the realm of fueling boxes (those that tap the wire), the big players are Edge, Blue Chip, and TST. The Blue Chip box was outlined in the previous post.



The Edge box (called the Comp), connects to the pump, MAP, *AND* to the can-bus. It's like having a fueling and timing box all in one. It basically takes control of the timing and fueling parameters of the engine. There are 5 power settings with adjustable response (smokiness) sub-levels within each level.



The TST boxes only connect to the pump and MAP sensor. They can control only fueling. They INFLUENCE timing, but do not CONTROL it. With this setup, the ECM's timing limits are not exceeded (which can be good OR bad, depending on your preference). The ECM will vary timing (as it normally does) and the TST box will cause the engine to think it's not working as hard, so the ECM may advance timing a little (rumor is up to 8°). Some feel advancing timing over stock is good; others feel it creates undue strain on the engine as it increases peak cylinder pressure. The TST boxes have 9 adjustable power levels, but are NOT adjustable for smokiness within each level. With the TST, if you want less smoke you have to turn the power down.



TST and Edge use different approaches for how they program the box to respond.



The Edge boxes respond both to your pedal and to boost. With the Edge, there are two elements to TOTAL fuel delivery- how much fuel will be dumped into the engine when you floor the pedal, and how much is reserved for when boost comes up. Think of the power level as adjusting the TOTAL amount of fuel that the engine will have delivered. So if your Edge box adds 120hp on the highest level, it might only add 30hp on the lowest level, and nothing with the box off.



When you adjust the "sublevel" in the Edge box, you are adjusting the mix between how much you get to "dump" versus how much is reserved for boost to come up. For example, on the most aggressive setting (sub-level 5), the Edge box will let you "dump" 63% of the max fueling (power level) just by flooring the pedal. The remaining 37% of fuel isn't added until the box sees a meager 3psi of boost.



On the next least aggressive setting (sub level 4), the Edge will let you only dump 50% of your fuel with the pedal, the remaining 50% isn't added until the box sees 10psi of boost. On sub-level 3, you can only dump 33% of max fuel, and the remainder isn't added until the box sees 20PSI of boost.



As you continue to turn down the sub-levels (2 and 1), less and less fuel is available to "dump" with the pedal (actually below stock on sublevels 1&2)- instead you have to wait for boost to come up and then the box will add the fuel once it sees that there's air there to burn it. This is how the Edge Comp operates in a nutshell on its 5 power levels and 5 sublevels (within each power level).



The TST boxes accomplish similar power gains (sometimes more), but they go about it totally differently. The TST powermax does NOT connect to the CAN-bus, so it can't make more fuel available to "dump". So when you floor the pedal with the TST box, you initially will get not more fuel than if you didn't have the box on at all. This is done to keep smoke down, and this is why the TST gets CARB approval for you California guys.



However, the TST boxes are VERY sensitive to boost pressure, and THAT'S how they know how to fuel and what to respond to. The TST adds fuel based on 1) what boost it measures, and 2) how fast boost is changing (increasing). The more boost there is when you floor it, the more the TST will give you when you floor the pedal. The faster boost is increasing, the faster the TST will pour the fuel to the engine. Keep in mind that the TST box isn't responding the the pedal when you floor it (per se), it's responding the the boost changes caused when you floor the pedal. It's basically just "amplifying" the effect of flooring the pedal.



Thus, the TST box will NOT add fuel if there's no boost. The Edge box will- how much is determined both by overall power level and sublevel setting.



These different ways of adding power mean that the boxes behave a little differently. The TST box is C. A. R. B. approved for use in CA. The Edge box is NOT. The TST box tends to "surge" under certain conditions, while the Edge will generally not do this. The TSTs are available with custom programming, and their competition model will make a LOT of power and smoke-- it's the "hottest" box on the market-- just ask your pyro!



Each box has it's pros and cons. I prefer the TST approach for the HO trucks, and the Edge approach for the standard output trucks. I feel that the HOs don't need the timing of the Edge boxes. On the SO trucks (which all automatic transmission trucks are from 98-02), the Edges are probably better. The TSTs can aggravate a surging auto transmission, so they aren't as smooth.



Sorry this is so long. I wanted you to see how the different boxes work so you can decide which will be better for your application.



Justin

 

[Hammer]

TMTT...

So how can a computer illiterate like me make that page fit to print it????. Tried both ways,regular and landscape and neither fits????..... Any Idea's,its a nice reference to have while trying to explain these boxes to those who don't understand..... Andy

 

[24V-DSL]

Hohn....

Excellent post. thanks for taking the time.

 

[John - K5AWO]

Originally posted by Hohn



Sorry this is so long. I wanted you to see how the different boxes work so you can decide which will be better for your application.



Justin

On the contrary Justin, as a newbie myself to diesels and the add on devices, I am in a quandry as to what to do. What is safe versus what isn't.



Thanks very much for putting that much effort out. I know how long it takes to type up a technical post, reread it for content and accuracy.



Kudoes.

John

 

[John - K5AWO]

How to make it fit to print

Originally posted by Hammer

TMTT...

So how can a computer illiterate like me make that page fit to print it????..... Andy

Now that one I can expand on easily Andy. Drop down to the end of the post Justin made, left click at the end of the signature. (you must give credit where credit is due. Now drag your mouse pointer up to the top of the screen moving it a tad left/right to hurry up the scrolling process. Do not lift the click button until you have the highlighted area just exactly where you want it. Release.



Now do a Control-C, that will copy the highlighted area to the "clipboard". I assume you are in MS Windows here...



Now hold the "Windows" key down and press 'R' key. In the box for the RUN command, type NOTEPAD and press ENTER.



Now that you have Notepad open, click inside the white text box area. Now do a Control-V, or Shift-Insert, or Right Click/Paste.



You will have inserted the text into Notepad. Notepad will strip all of the funky Visual Basic and Web content leaving only ASCII text.



Fit to print like it is... . or, as I do. You can now do another step.



Control-A to highlight everything. Control-C to place in Clipboard.

Startup MS Word, paste the content in Word and now you can reformat to your heart's content. This is how I build up my "book of Knowledge".



There is yet another thing I like to do. I created a Favorites Folder called 'TDR'. I then Add Favorites to the TDR folder for this thread. I rename the title that defaults up there to represent what the thread is about. Oh so easy, and fast. You can then at a later time edit, copy, paste, etc...



John

 

[BillGotthelf]

Hohn great post-But for serious power take the TST comp box and stack a timing box with it.

 

[Hohn]

That may or may not be the way to go. On an HO, it's less of a good idea. The HO's sharper, more violent injection event (and higher compression ratio) creates a higher peak cylinder pressure to begin with. Now you bump up the timing, and the pressure spike can get severe. If you're towing really heavy and run a larger injector, it might be enough to pop the HG.



Also, sometimes people LOSE boost after stacking, because the timing can get excessive.



I know that a lot of people report good results (especially on the low end) with the PMAX/EZ stack. I just want people to know that it's NOT for everyone, and if you go this route in search of max HP, it can be hard on the engine.

 

[BillGotthelf]

If you are crazy enough to stack boxes to get more hp had better have some serious engine mods already.