Is there a magnet inside the Getrag?

[bgilbert]

Changed fluid in my getrag today, and for some reason I stuck my finger up into the drain hole and felt something that didn't feel right. I couldn't fish it out with my fat finger, so got the pencil magnet out, and pulled out a chunk of what looks like a piece of cast metal. Like from the inside of the case and maybe not from a gear. Luckily this thing didn't get mangled between the moving parts. After feeling around some more inside, it felt like there was a large round magnet right at the bottom of the case to the rear of the drain hole?? My fingers got very muddy looking, like from old metal sludge or something, not the color of the 1k mile old 5w30 that was in it. The transmission shifts great, doesn't jump out of gear, only howls at the moon in 5th gear. OD is very noisy. Been this way for a long time. I'll try to post a pic of the metal piece. Thanks. BTW, the reason I changed the fluid in such a short interval, was I had a transmission temp sensor in the drain hole instead of the drain plug, but the sensor just kept leaking, even after teflon tape, tightening, tightening, just couldn't get it any tighter, it just kept leaking. I run 5 qts in it, 1. 5qts overfilled. I drained out 5 qts so it I didn't lose much, but it wasn't gonna heal itself.

 

[1stgen4evr]

magnet?

Mine does. The magnet picks up the metal that is erroded for what ever reason. If your OD gear is shedding metal, that is the source of the 'mud'. You do know that it won't heal itself. You can replace the countershaft gear and the companion gear on the mainshaft. It will be cheaper the sooner you do it. I have seen this problem lead to catastrophic failure.



That looks like a casting fragment but there is nothing in the Getrag that looks like that. No bumps or ledges to break off. Hope you don't have an enemy that would do that to you. There is a fair amount of clearance between the countershaft gears and the bottom of the case. That fragment could most likely rattle around forever.



James

 

[Dieselman359]

Magnet?

Hey Bill, I think that the "magnet" came with that "Greenleaf'd pump.



Honestly I don't know if there is one in there or not.

 

[bgilbert]

Thanks James. I figured you'd jump in on this one. I was just gonna PM you but figured this magnet info would be nice to know for others. I did REALLY tighten that 1/2" transmission temp sender adaptor bushing. Kept hoping nothing would break inside from the pipe plug being tapered and being super tight. Hopefully the brass bushing for the temp sender would break before the bottom/inside of the transmission. ?? I don't remember any jagged edges inside the drain hole. I will learn more as I drive it more. If it continues leaking with the factory drain plug in, then I know that a problem must be there. Don't know when I'll ever pull it and see about repairing it. Maybe when its clutch time I'll think about tearing into it and officially becoming a member of the 'Getrag Preservation Society'. Isn't that how one becomes a member, they have to go inside there getrag?

 

[1stgen4evr]

volunteer membership

'Getrag Preservation Society'. Isn't that how one becomes a member, they have to go inside their getrag?



Definitely considered 'sustaining members'.



Don't know how hard you are on the clutch but I had to replace the throwout and pilot bearing long before any need to do the clutch. I plan to pull the transmission and see why the shift stick is jumping in 4th (not jumping out). I figure it is the clutch gear that isn't moving completely into position and causing a pulse on the shift fork. Probably one of the three detent balls that is going south. We will see pretty soon.



My experience with the getrag suggest that the heat sensor would best be in the fling area of the third gear set or/and in the fling area of the input/companion gear. I have not figured out how to sense the pocket bearing failure before it becomes catastrophic. It happens very quickly and with little warning. Seems to be associated with low oil level from my observation.



You mention that your OD set is noisy. I expect if you could get a temp reading off them or the oil off them, it would be high/er heat.



Good luck



James

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Mine does that pulse/jumping thing too, except only in 1st.



Steve

 

[AMikonis]

I'll second everything James said. ('Cept I haven't had the jumping/jumping out problems... YET!) It sounds a lot like a couple Getrags I've been into that just needed a new rear bearing. You can do it in a day and probably just needs a $20 bearing. If you wait 'til it goes boom, it's going to get a lot more expensive. Think about it...



Andy

 

[1stgen4evr]

Pulse jump thing

Steve, you remember the three balls on the clutch hub and slider. All the gears have similar devises to hold them in place. I am just guessing on mine and would be guessing as well on yours but I expect something awry with that. Probably not going to be a serious matter for you as long as you are not working in 1st gear much and and if it never jumps out. If it ever jumps out, it will be time to open it up again. Andy could well be correct on the rear bearing but it has only been a little time since you had yours open. I would be more inclined to think that your bearings are still jamb up. You recall how I suggested to check end play by examining through the pto cover. I had the option of replacing the complete 3 - 4 shift segment the last time I opened mine up, but didn't. (I am really cheap sometimes) So now I have to go in it again. But hey, that was 100k miles back.



James

 

[AMikonis]

I meant the rear bearing on Bill's trans, not Steve's. Sorry, I see I didn't make that clear. I've never dealt with a problem like Steve's.



A.

 

[1stgen4evr]

noise in the getrag?

Andy and Bill. My guess on the bearing causing noise is this. If it is a whine like that you might expect from an older truck say from the forties, (you would also hear this in a movie as sound effect of a ton and a half truck pulling off), then I agree that this if from a bearing that isn't properly set as to preload. That whine in the old trucks is from gear deflection and was common 'back then'. Because the gears are more than adequate as to load capacity in the Getrag, they don't deflect if properly preloaded. A howl in the Getag on the other hand would indicate to me that the speed bearing on the countersahft gear is failing or there has been an over load/ lubrication film failure event with OD and the gear teeth have scuffed. Clearly, a guess at best, but I would be very interested to know what you find when you do open it up. This is one of the few things that could be evaluated if you had a hole in the floor to access the transmission and remove the cover.



I firmly believe that if enough of us get our collective intelligence together, we can solve some of the unresolved problems with the getrag. Dodge never did as near as I can tell but the guys here could. Cause we aren't tight lip with what we find.



James

 

[bgilbert]

I have a getrag access door in the cab. I looked and couldn't see anything scuffed up or out of the ordinary for the average observer. I bet the PO ran it at factory fill and did run with gear oil in it. Was told the noise began 5 years before I bought the truck, which was Oct. 2002 or so. Pics of the top of the transmission removed thru access door in my RR's. I'll be buying a transmission jack this summer. I probly would have never opened the transmission up if I never bombed the truck. Since I've bombed the truck, and it needs a new clutch now, and since the trans will be out, I might as well see what I can do to it. Its not a whine like the old trucks, its a howl. A cyclic, loud howl.

 

[JLEONARD]

I don't know if this will help as it's kind of after-the-fact, but I just may be able to get some of the bearings you replace analyzed as to why they failed, or why they are making noise, or maybe confirmation that they are functioning properly.

If for nothing else it might be educational.

If you want to do that, just send me a pm...

Jay

 

[1stgen4evr]

bearing failure

Thinking about Jays' offer, this comes to mind. If you think the frequency of the howl is engine speed, the mainshaft bearing is spalling out. If it is slower like less than half engine speed, the countershaft bearing is failing. If the gears are mirror bright, they are good to go.



Also thinking about Jay's offer, this is the sort of thing that will allow us to solve the problem of the getrag.



Typical failure on the getrag is at the pocket bearing but at least two of the trannys I have serviced have had failure on the countershaft bearing/s but have been on the front, not on the rear at the OD gear set. It is my FIRM opinion that the countershaft bearings are inadequate. I have considered several ways to remedy this but find no reliable way other than to recast the housing to accomodate larger/longer bearings.



James

 

[bgilbert]

Update

Update: found out what this chunk of metal was from. Looks as though way back when, when I had the top cover off, I must of tightened one of the top cover bolts too much. Here's a pic, not the best, but if you look you can see where the bolt somehow went too deep and knocked out a chunk of metal in the corner bolt hole.

 

[sdstriper]

bgilbert, I wonder if that now thru bolt hole will weep oil? Are you planning on leaving it that way?



Also, if you wanted to add a magnet for the drain plug, use a rare earth magnet or neodymium magnet. They are much more powerful when compared to other magnets of comparable size.

 

[Paychk]

Bill



Didn't you say you're going to install a PTO filter? If so, it has 2 magnets in it.

 

[1stgen4evr]

It was not necessarily an over length bolt. If the bolt hole had oil or trash in it, there is no place for the oil to escape. You won't even feel it as pressure but it will develope enough to burst the housing. Be glad it poped to the inside as it did and not split the case.



For anyone with the top off their transmission, blow out the holes but do not tap them to clear trash. The bolt fit is very snug and an ordinary tap will over cut the threads. I found out the hard way.



James

 

[bgilbert]

sds, I think I felt around each hole and they all were 'all the way through'. I could be wrong.



Luckily that chunk had a clear path to the bottom of the case and not in between gears and such. This happened btw ~3 years ago, that was when I had the top cover off. I only found the chunk ~1 year ago. . give or take.

 

[bgilbert]

Well I did it again. I guess that 13yr old silicone down in the bottom of the top cover bolt holes is enough to blast out a chunk of iron from the case. I was tightening the top cover bolts when I heard a snap #@$%! . Removed the top cover to find it did the same thing to another bolt hole . Had to remove a PTO cover to find the chunk. I picked and proded each hole and tried to get most of the old silicone out.



Ended up using some old gasket material I had laying around and traced and cut myself a gasket for the top cover .



Gonna work on a vent and length of hose attached to the breather vent. Course I think all the leaking on the top cover came from the shift hole/boot.