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Towing with a shortbed?

I posted a few days ago about my recent purchase of my Raptor Toyhauler. I love it and my truck pulls it well and although stopping it could be much better,I think an exhaust brake upgrade will remedy that. Which I have planned very soon btw!! The problem is when I back it up any slight incline,I get this violent jerking that can only be remedied via shifting into 4 low. Is this the reason that Genos sells the 2 low conversion kit?I have never towed with a 5th wheel hitch before so I don't know if this is common or not. It must be another Dodge idiosyncrasy if Genos sells this kit. Help!!



Alan
 
The jerking you speak of is typically only associated with manual transmission's because the clutch is trying to grab and the drive line gets bound up. I always thought ladder bars would help. Getting the 4-low kit would probably reduce if not eliminate the problem.

Godspeed,
Trent
 
I don't know what your toyhauler weighs, but it's asking a lot of your pickup with 3. 54 gears to push that kind of weight up an incline in reverse. When I pull my gooseneck flatbed, I always use low range to back up if loaded heavy. I plan to install a posi-loc when I get time. I used to work for an outfit that had a 97 dodge CTD cab and chassis with 4:10 gears in the oil field. They put a cut-out in the vacuum control to get 2wd low range for the same reason. They pulled some pretty heavy loads on oilfield roads through mud, snow, etc. Any time you want to really test out a vehicle, send it to the oil patch!;)
 
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Allan,

I had the same problem when backing my raptor and I did do the 2wd low kit. . it works really well. you just have to be easy with it as you are putting more torque to only 2 wheels. and the T/C is kinda fragile in this regard.

Pics are of a kit offered by another member. . It uses the vacuum through a valve to disable the front axle slider. so when you are in 4x4 low, the light on the dash don't come on when you have the valve pushed down. . Lift it up and you have 4wd... you have to have it down when you are in the 2wd mode as well
 
Here are a few pics of the hose install underneath. The rubber grommet on the metal is where the hoses run through to under the truck.
 
I wouldn't think of negatively. It is a tattle tale letting you know that you are doing something incorrectly. The kit mentioned previously is the least expensive way to go. I went the more expensive and difficult way so as to avoid switches and vacuum problems. I am pretty hard on my truck rather often and can't be messing with small components out in the inclement weather / boonies.
 
The jerking you speak of is typically only associated with manual transmission's because the clutch is trying to grab and the drive line gets bound up. I always thought ladder bars would help. Getting the 4-low kit would probably reduce if not eliminate the problem.



Godspeed,

Trent



He really should not be engaging the clutch on that uphill push(pull) anyway. That is a good way to tear out a driveline.



This manuver calls for getting the combination started on the level and leave the clutch alone while backing the trailer in place.
 
cojhl2, I agree that the clutch should be left alone once the rig is moving in reverse and in a perfect world we could always do that. With the reverse gear ratio in our pickups that is often times impossible, so slipping the clutch is the only alternative with a 2wd. The 4wd guys have a better option.

BTW, the original poster has an automatic and still has the problem.

Godspeed,
Trent
 
Thanks for all the help guys..... the general consensus seems that this is normal regardless of the vehicle make. I like my 3. 55 ratio because the vast majority of the time this truck is used is to pull my 6K utility trailer for work. My truck renders a very respectable 13mpg under these conditions and I'm quite happy with how it performs. Once or twice a month when I tow my Toyhauler,I'll deal with the slow starts and backing issues accompanied with a taller gear-set. I have no problem when shifted into 4 low other than binding the transfer case when backing in a turn. I don't mind that at all if I'm unloaded but with 2700# of pin weight the axle that is going to take the slipping will now be the front..... which suffers the added weight of the Cummins!!I think a 2-low kit will solve my issue.....



@ Eric-I really appreciate all the help you've given me regarding my purchase. I did find the exact same thing under the bed that you did and I insulated appropriately. The kit you mentioned in your photos is not the BD kit at Genos?



@Blacksheep-Not my intention to get you wrapped up in a driving lesson from other members and I apologize for that sir... . lol's! You're right though... . my truck is an auto... . A Goerend!!!



Alan
 
I've never experienced the jerking you described with a NV-5600 in an '01 w/3. 54 gear, with a stock or full DTT 48RE in an '06, and certainly not in my current C&C w/Aisin and 4. 10 gears.
 
cojhl2, I agree that the clutch should be left alone once the rig is moving in reverse and in a perfect world we could always do that. With the reverse gear ratio in our pickups that is often times impossible, so slipping the clutch is the only alternative with a 2wd. The 4wd guys have a better option.



BTW, the original poster has an automatic and still has the problem.



Godspeed,

Trent



AClayton, sorry if it sounded like a driving lesson, I was merely trying to stand up for Dodge!!



I did not read close enough to see it is an automatic, so blacksheepdiesel would this not be a problem with the auto. I can't understand how the torque converter would latch and unlatch like this. If it is in the bands and clutches,, is there not a problem mechanically??
 
It goes against your inclination and caution when backing, but you must give the engine sufficient fuel to power the weight when backing, just as you do going forward. The jerking you are experiencing is the engine struggling to run against too much load and not enough fuel.

Higher gearing than you desire at that point, compared to the slow speed you wish to use when backing, is the culprit and can only be addressed in these trucks with 1> lower gearing being installed in your axles; or 2> being able to use a lower reverse gear range, which only a 4x4 t-case or underdrive unit can provide.

Obviously, the cheapest and simplest solution is to enable use of 4-Lo when backing. That can lead to binding in your t-case in certain situations, especially with dry pavement and a heavy load combining to cause excellent traction, which does not allow slippage of either the front or rear wheels when they need to.

If you install a kit to allow you to separate the 4wd function from the Lo-range function in your t-case, you can then take advantage of the lower gearing your t-case provides without binding your driveline.

Other than that, you need to simply get comfortable with backing under power. The speed is not uncontrollably faster than trying to idle in reverse up an incline. Practice backing 'at speed' on a flat area, then give it some go-juice when doing it uphill.

As a trucker, I had to learn to do the same thing long ago. If you allow it to jerk, you cannot control the truck and trailer and you will definitely break something eventually.
 
The problem was instantly cured by using 4 low..... that caused another problem that Scott made mention of. The 4 low kit is what I'm going to install. I was just wondering if others have faced this before. My truck is not properly set up yet to tow this trailer. I need new mirrors,new load range E tires,and exhaust brake and now the 2 low kit. EGT's are great for towing this much weight and I am hoping for 10mpg. I get 13 to 15 towing my other trailer on average,so towing this around on the Interstates should get me about 10mpg..... Hoping to,but it is what it is. Traveling to western NC to Brown Mt. in 3 weeks and plan to have all previously mentioned upgrades installed by then.



Alan
 
I agree with Scott's analysis. The NV-5600 with 3. 54 gears is simply geared too high for backing a heavy fiver unless you fuel it up a little and allow the clutch to fully engage which then causes you to back faster than you wish.

I wonder, could you have some wear in the rear spring bushings or motor mounts? If your truck has some slack at either or both points it will contribute to the jerking you described because the springs and driveline will wind up farther when you engage the clutch.
 
Check to make sure your service brakes are not hanging up. I've had the same problem with my '06 auto 4x4 and the brake peddle sticks, and applys the trailer brakes giving the jerkey feeling, This only happens when i anf backing the trailer up hill - - haven't found why but am working on it
 
I agree with Scott's analysis. The NV-5600 with 3. 54 gears is simply geared too high for backing a heavy fiver unless you fuel it up a little and allow the clutch to fully engage which then causes you to back faster than you wish.



I wonder, could you have some wear in the rear spring bushings or motor mounts? If your truck has some slack at either or both points it will contribute to the jerking you described because the springs and driveline will wind up farther when you engage the clutch.

Harvey





Something to consider..... when I have my E- Brake installed,I'll get him to look at that. My truck is an automatic but I don't think it makes that much difference whether or not it is manual or auto. I can back it with no problems on level or slightly uneven terrain..... only on inclines have I notice this. And it IS violent... ... I stopped on the hill with no regard to the understanding of having this happen. Next time I will simply start at the base of the hill and back up it easily..... but w/ my new 2 low option!!



Alan
 
Alan,

Ooops. Sorry, I forgot your truck is an automatic. That makes the jerking harder to understand. Is the torque converter stalling then slipping under the extreme load? My '06 48RE didn't do that when stock or after the full DTT conversion.
 
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