Is your oil better than mine?

[fest3er]

No, this isn't intended to start an oil war. It's really a serious question.

What makes any oil better than any other? This question has been hashed over, discussed, fought out and generally flogged beyond death. In general, the technical specifications of the oil and laboratory test results show which lubes do a better job than others.

The question I'm actually asking is, "How can we tell that an oil is better?" That is, what tangible (visibly and audibly measurable) results can be detected?

For instance, some oils will flow much better when cold, thus alllowing the engine to be better lubricated in extremely cold temperatures.

Some oils maintain their viscosity over longer periods of time, making them more suitable for extended use.

Some oils withstand extremely high temperatures better than others. I'd noticed that, back when I was using Mopar lube (up to 60K miles), my turbo would 'stick' when started cold, until plenty of exhaust was pushed at it to spin it, even though I always cooled the EGT to 300F before shutting down. After switching to synthetic, this symptom went away and hasn't recurred.

So what visible, audible, tangible 'results' can be recorded that show one oil to be better than another, whether it can be detected externally, can be seen using an optical probe, or requires an engine to be dismantled?

And once we see how to determine how engine lubes differ, perhaps we can come up with a table of ballpark maintenance intervals that shows how to best utilize whichever lube we choose.

After all, it's not about the lube we choose, it's about performing maintenance that best matches how we use the engine.

Neal

 

[Lurch]

Troublemaker

 

[C. Harlan]

Firestarter!#ad




-Chris-

 

[Prairie Dog]

I was almost afraid to open this post - but I see nobody's even used the "A" word yet.

One thing that doesn't make an oil better is silly tests that don't reflect anything oil see's in real life. I suspect the most important things about oil is that you use a descent brand, keep it clean and replace it regularly.

Now, let the sniveling begin!

 

[ronco]

I agree with Prairie Dog in that, whatever you use, keep it changed at proper intervals to minimize oil related problems. PERIOD. The interval depends on you and what you are comfortable with.





Ronco

 

[Bill Lins]

Of course it is- otherwise, I'd be using yours!

 

[Dane]

"How can we tell that an oil is better?"

Ummm How about how long does your engine/trans/etc... last before rebuild time?

No, this isn't intended to start an oil war. It's really a serious question.

Yeah, right...

 

[Prairie Dog]

I'm so proud of the way we've handled ourselves here!

I guess oils well that ends well eh?

 

[Pit Bull]

I'd rather use your oil. Where do you live? Could you ship it too me? A free oil thread, I love it I will let you know how well your oil performs in, what do you think will be a good test?? Lets go for 200K miles. I'll need about 36QTs per year ( like to change it every 5K miles ). You did not mention the filter??? I like to use Fleetguard. By the way I'm using Rotella T 15w40 now, but the temperature never gets that hot or cold where I live. My truck is alway parked in the garage, when I'm not driving it and I don't tow, but sometimes haul as much as 1000 lbs. I am willing to use synthetic if you supply it.

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by fest3er

So what visible, audible, tangible 'results' can be recorded that show one oil to be better than another,

Neal

You left out Smellyable! Stinky oil wins!



Okay, everybody use everybody elses oil for 2 intervals and we'll compare notes when completed. :-laf



Sorry Neal, we can't get serious here or the :-{} :-{} might start.

 

[fest3er]

Re: Re: Is your oil better than mine?

Originally posted by WadePatton
You left out Smellyable! Stinky oil wins!

Okay, everybody use everybody elses oil for 2 intervals and we'll compare notes when completed.

Sorry Neal, we can't get serious here or the might start.

True, I forgot about Ro-Smella. It sort-of reminds me of being behind OTR rigs some years back after they'd filled up with Texaco fuel. That was some stinky exhaust.

I don't get it . How is it possible to argue over, "I averaged 18 MPG when I used oil X. After I switched to oil Y, I consistently got 17. 2 MPG. When I switched back, MPG went back to 18 consistently. Only the oil changed" Or, "When I used synthetic oil XX, it would start real easy in the winter when it was -10F. But the one month I had to switch to oil XY, it cranked real slow at -10F. When I was able to go back to synth oil XX, it went back to starting easy. " Or, "I always have my Brand RR oil analyzed at 5K before I change it. The results come back A, B, C, D, ... , Z. " Or, "I use synthetic brand GD and bypass filtration. I haven't drained the oil in 300K miles. My samples always come back A, B, C, D, ... , Z. "

What lube do you use? How do you maintain it? How do you know it's doing a good job?

What's to argue? Of course, if two people are using the same lube and getting different results, then a discussion :-{} is warranted to determine what conditions differ between the two situations.

There are enough members and guests reading these fora. Wouldn't it be nice if we could produce a table that give ball-park estimates of what works well? Something like

Lube   Cost/Qt   Interval
  W  $0. 50 3K
  X  $1. 50 6K
  Y  $2. 00 10K
  Z  $5. 00 none (change filter(s)
  add makeup oil)

At least then they would have an idea that if they use a really cheap oil, they'll get good results if they change it every 3K miles, yet on the other hand, if they use a top-quality synthetic with bypass filtration, they don't need to chaange the oil, just the filters and add make-up oil. With such a table, they'd have quantifiable data so they could decide for themselves whether to use cheap oil and change it a lot , use synth and never drain it , or go somewhere in between .

Note this isn't about brands#@$%! . Nor is it about API :{ . It's about what we ourselves have found to work well.

Mind you, I'm not holding my breath. I know oil is as controversial as, say, Gore v. Bush. But it would be nice, just once, to see objective data result from an oil thread.

N

 

[illflem]

Neil, when you throw in the price of oil analysis, make up oil and bypass filters even dino brand Y will beat syn Z by far price wise and do just as good of a job. Even more if it's brand A.

Most folks pay more for one oil analysis than I pay for a complete Delo oil change w/filter at around $1/qt in 55 ga drums.

 

[Pit Bull]

You also forgot about the 5 year 100K mile warranty. If I change the oil and filter based on the owners manual and keep the records, then I won't have to hire a lawyer if I have a problem. If I use synthetics with or without bypass for extended intervals I will need a lawyer to get the warranty coverage. I know you can say the Amsoil will back me up and take care of the problem. That's easy to say, but I don't want a hassle when changing the oil every 5K miles will take care of my engine and my warranty. Sorry just not worth my time or I would think most peoples time???

 

[WadePatton]

Let the fuss begin.



I've always been partial to synthetics. I ran my old gasser up to 330,000 on synthetic mostly-with NO analysis, NO bypass--Saw it on the road just the other day over a year later! I pulled the heads around 250k (no problem, another story) and everybody was FLAT AMAZED at the cleanliness and lack of wear on the engine. Of course I've always been the type to keep the valve stems clean through vigorous use of RPM!



Then I gets this DieselCar and my synthetic isn't rated for diesel so I go with Rosmella while I make up my mind. Quickly aproaching 100K miles and running over 400HP, I've made up my mind.



I'm going to add a Gulf Coast bypass system and run Amsoil 15/40 Diesel/Marine oil. I've never bought an Amsoil product before, but I've liked what "name-brand" synthetics have done for me before.



I run synthetic 2-stroke oil, more r's less smoke. And I loaned the weedwhacker to neighbors once. It came back with straight gas in the tank. Ran fine for another year or so before I tossed the 10 year old thing.



So I'm going to dive right into the controversial stuff. Might even have my oil looked at by a lab. I found out that there is one not too far away.



I might like it. I might not. I'll tell you as I go, but you make your decisions, I've made mine--for now.



Other posters: I don't need no stinkin' warranty.

I'll be adding 12 or less quarts per year, using a one or two rolls of paper towels and 3 or 4 Fleetguard filters per year. Clean oil-less changing, YEP I'm paying more for it.

 

[adsharpe]

1. The guy is an Amsoil salesman.

2. Any large fleets run Amsoil?

3. If not, why not?

4. Bottom line?



I run synthetic and get 50 mpg and only change every 100k. (No, I won't tell until I get my distributorship set up. )



Read TDR Issue 35, pg. 86.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by adsharpe



I run synthetic and get 50 mpg and only change every 100k. (No, I won't tell until I get my distributorship set up. )

Is that all?? I get that on Rosella :-laf

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Soot suspension is a big issue for me. The additive package can suspend only so much soot, then it starts plating out inside the engine. I have seen some front covers off, and the ones with greatly extended oil change intervals are black inside from soot plated out on everything.



I like premium oil, but it never stays inside Sickly for more than 3000 miles, so Costco it is for Delo 400. Just my opinion.



Sure some of the newer engines don't seem to make much soot, but then who leaves his engine stock anyway?

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

Soot suspension is a big issue for me. The additive package can suspend only so much soot, then it starts plating out inside the engine.

That's what I'm counting on the bypass filter to do. Is that a logical thought?

[edit] Well, yes and no is the answer I found here:http://www.oilguard.com/side_menu/bypass_filtration/soot_removal.php

 

[adsharpe]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly



I like premium oil, but it never stays inside Sickly for more than 3000 miles, so Costco it is for Delo 400. Just my opinion.

Finally, the voice of experience and reason. Oil case closed! Use the correct API rating in a known premium brand and CHANGE IT!

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by adsharpe
Finally, the voice of experience and reason. Oil case closed! Use the correct API rating in a known premium brand and CHANGE IT!

If you are running high HP and generate a lot of soot, yes, you would want to change the oil more frequently, because even bypass filtration won't remove all the soot.

But I really don't think the vast majority of TDR members generate enough soot to need such frequent oil changes.

N