ISB fuel pump

[Archive]

I have read a few posts on fuel pump problems caused by DC piling their computer controls on top of Cummings electronics.
What can we do as owners to prevent this
costly failure from happening now or after the warranty expires ? Currently I am not my own warranty station. My truck 99 QC 5 speed has 32,000 miles with no problems pulls like a freight train and gives better fuel mileage than a lot of mid size cars. . I love this truck.....

How about the 5 speed when the bolt backs out of 5th gear and we lose 5th gear are we being forced to foot the bill after the factory warrranty expires ?

I am just getting back on line after a job transfer fron the heart of Georgia to Northeast Ohio if these subjects were covered in the past go easy on me.

 

[Archive]

Hope "scott1" see this. He posted a long commentary on another site and I wish he replys here.

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99' Stock Quad 4x4 A/T LB 3. 54 20K Miles.
Did have both 18-11-99 & 18-08-99 TSB's performed.
Pull a 7000# TT over, around and thru the Cascades

 

[Archive]

Hey Tailpipe fancy meeting you here LOL. And look, its Tommy. Anyhow, those pumps definately have the big possibility of having computer conflicts. I had some very knowledgable and educated folks from Bosche and Cummins head office inform me off the DC ECM program being very poor. Heck, its just too long to type again so I'll go over to the H/campers site and copy/paste... BRB

I have a lot of experience with this pump... I am on my 4th. the Cummins
engineers I spoke to while dealing with this problem said that the problem that
was/is causing the failures was/is the DC ECM program. Heres what it does. At
2100 rpm the ECM recognizes too much load and starts to derate the fuel... by
the time your at 2750 RPM it is derated by 55%! This was DC's way of saving the
drivetrains! Bosche and Cummins warned against it for a few reasons. 1] The
rated power will not be produced with this ECM program. I know of several
people including myself that have proven the low power with dyno's and
performance tests of 45-80 mph [5th gear] as required by Cummins. A good
time is 20 seconds... Lots are getting 34 and higher. This is not just the 98. 5's
and is starting again with a batch of late 99's. There is one at my dealers right
now and 3 folks on the TDR have posted problems in the past few days.

2] When the ECM starts to derate fuel, you push the throttle more to get the
power... reducing power even more because the fuel is being cut back. Cut
back the fuel and you lean out the pump... lean out the pump and you have
metal on metal. FAILURE.

My first pump was shredded inside and Bosche told me directly that the
leaning out was the culprit. Bosche also said do not replace a failed pump with
a pump that does not have the 'R' at the start of the part number. The 'R' is for
remanufactured and Bosche said it is upgraded internally to handle the
running leaner.

My 2nd and 3rd pumps had no 'R' but this 4th one does. So far so good and its
got close to 40K on it.

Also, why do you think the uprated ECM came out for the manual trans trucks?
Cummins wanted to save face maybe? I really think DC screwed up at our
expense after all the info I gathered from very reliable sources. Some nerve
trying to charge an addtional $1,000. 00 or more for what we should've had in
the first place.

There is a wait of up to 6 wks to get a pump! Most dealers are robbing trucks in
stock to get folks on the road.

I can get injectors and pumps... cheap. A pump was around 1800 USD. 275 HP
injectors... 375/set.

I forgot to mention... the majority of these failed pumps are a result of the fuel
being derated while under load like pulling a trailer and they do not have to be
real heavy weights.

But with saying that I recently read on here and over at that other site that it does not matter about the 'R' at the start of the part number, Sheesh. I sure do not wish this hassle on anybody but maybe... . MAYBE we'll have some strength in numbers if it keeps spreading.

Sorry for the long post.

SCOTT

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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!

[This message has been edited by scott1 (edited 10-02-1999). ]

[This message has been edited by scott1 (edited 10-02-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

Is this pump covered under the 100,000 mile warranty or the 36,000 part? I know I sure can't afford to be replacing these, hopefully dodge will change some things before I pick my Ram up next spring!!!!

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y2k QC 24V ISB SLT 4X4 SWB 4. 10 LSD AUTO

 

[Archive]

The injection pump is covered under the 5/100,000 warranty.

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'99 3500 QC 4x2, Auto, white/agate, 4. 10 LSD, camping & towing pkg. , Mag-Hytec rear cover & trans. pan, Auto Meter gages, Mopar bed liner & mud flaps, Prime-Loc fuel filter relocation kit, Tekonsha Sentinel brake controller, Rancho step rails

'97 Pace American 28' "Aerosport" tag race car trailer

 

[Archive]

I have been reading a lot of 'stories' lately that DC is not honoring the injector pump under the 5/100K. Just to be certain it is covered I will be talkin to my dealer later today.

SCOTT

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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!

 

[Archive]

Scotty - can you tell when you're towing and fuel is being cut back? I'm probably doing what everyone else would do - keep the pedal to the metal! All that happens is that the truck cranks right on.

 

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Does the "blue box" have any affect on the ECM derating the fuel to the pump? If it overrides it, that would be a strong reason to get the "box"?

 

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When I had the stock truck I had this frustrating feeling when I would hit a hill with a load on... I would push the pedal and there was barely enough to get me up a hill... the pedal was always to the rug. Now I fly up the hills with ease and rarely exceed half throttle.

I am not familiar with the Blue Box but I know the TST unit is 'fixing' this problem. Mark and I talked for awhile on how the DC program is set up when I was in Belen NM. More fuel, more air, more power and now I have much better mileage too!

SCOTT

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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!



[This message has been edited by scott1 (edited 10-03-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

jjdiesel

The Blue Box does overide the defuel signal that Scott spoke of. There is a device being created which will derail the defuel signal, and it will be much less expensive I believe. It will not make the horsepower that the Blue Box does. What it will do is eliminate the signal to the ecm which occurs at 20. 5 # boost, and allow you to make more power. The experts I have communicated with re: these matters, feel the BB is an excellent way to treat this situation.
I would be remiss if I did not mention that there have been two cases of pump failure that I am aware of; 1. Dr. Performance, you can be sure that sabotoging the BB would be in his interests; 2. Another party who is more creditable IMHO. I plan to email a couple folks who have extensive knowledge in this area for their input. Note that Scott had a terrible time with isb pumps and he is not using the BB. If you are interested in the BB (jjdiesel), go back in the archives to about 8-30 where a topic "Blue Box" exists for a little more discussion.

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98. 5,24v,3/4 ton,2wd,lsd,5sp
blue box hp enhancement

 

[Archive]

sorry guys I'm new here, how do you get into the archives? and how much do the blue box and the tst kit cost each? I went to tst's website and couldn't find any kind of 24v ecm kit all I found was a 275 hp injector kit

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y2k QC 24V ISB SLT 4X4 SWB 4. 10 LSD AUTO

 

[Archive]

My truck was completely stock while I was going through the pump problems. Since I have done some mods I get better mileage, better power and I really think that the truck works less and strains less to get going now. I am quite satisfied with the level of power and economy I have now. I think I would be crossing that fine line of economy and drivetrain damage if I was to go to more power.

SCOTT

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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!

 

[Archive]

Thanks hvac
Lot's of interesting stuff! It looks like the blue box and the TST unit are the most common being used. Tuff to make a decision on which one. Good to know that it interrupts the signal from the ECM to derate the fuel, an awful compelling reason to upgrade! Thanks again

 

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Can either one of these "magic" boxes be used with the auto trans ? Do the boxes have anything to do with shift points-up and down etc etc. If all they do is interrupt the de-fuel signal, then they shouldn't have anything to do with the operation of the automatic. I would appreciate any response. Thanks, Sam

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1999 Dodge Laramie SLT QC, 24V Cummins turbo diesel ISB, 2WD, auto trans, 3. 55 rear end- LSD, long bed, HD towing and camper pkg,K&N air filter, CD player, electric seats, bright white, chrome diamond plate tool box, resonator removed, turbo silencer ring removed, all options except leather seats. "I love the smell of diesel in the morning. "




[This message has been edited by porky (edited 10-03-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

Hey tailpipe, nothing personal,but Cummings is a small town in Georgia. Cummins is the engine in our trucks.

John

P. S. #ad
I think the engine is bigger than the town, but don't quote me on that.

 

[Archive]

Hello folks

Turbo-D, check the Blue Chip site out www.bluechipdiesel.com, my box cost $795. 00.
The TST box is priced the same I believe.

As usual I have provided confusing information which I will attempt to clarify.
The Blue Box will communicate directly with the pump to make it run harder than it would otherwise while under the control of the oem electronics. The Blue Box doesn't begin to affect the pump until you put your foot down half way or so, as if you are starting up a hill. The light comes on to let you know it is enhancing performance.

There is another device which a horsepower shop I know of is attempting to bring to market. This device will derail or interupt the signal to the ecm created by over spec boost pressures. This device is what I call a Clinton box (me enjoying myself, sorry), it lies to the ecm to keep the pump from defueling at higher boost levels. This device I believe will be cheaper by considerable margin than the Blue Box or the TST box. It does not make the pump run harder, it only stops the pump from laying down like Scott described. This device could be used in conjunction with a hot set of injectors for a very impressive hp gain. With out such a device you don't get full fuel and your bigger injectors won't have the same effect.

Porky - I am resonably sure that none of the components mentioned above have any direct control of auto tranmission functions. My box had only three wires, one to the fuse box, and two to the pump. The usual disclaimers regarding the auto trans do still apply. In other words the Blue Box and the TST box sure could stress your transmission.

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98. 5,24v,3/4 ton,2wd,lsd,5sp
blue box hp enhancement

 

[Archive]

thanks for all the input I appreciate it.
If the muffler is removed will this void the 5/ 100,000 mile warranty ?

I never really thought about mis-spelling
Cummins... ... . but thanks John I appreciate it

What do you think about the question on the 5 speed has anyone pressed DC after the expiratiuon of the warranty to fix this known problem. Is there a tech bulletin on the transmission.

 

[Archive]

I wonder if the new ECU from cummins stops the fuel from shutting down?? Is that part of the reason for the ECU. Or are they just in it for the money?

Don

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"The Shadow" 1999 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 QC 5spd 3. 55lsd, Short Bed, Sport, Black / Tan Interior, Trailer tow package, Camper package, Infinity sound.

Remember Friends don't let friends drive phords.

Lapeer, Michigan

 

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Oh I forgot to tell ya'll about my truck... .
1999 350 light driftwood all options except
electric seat and C. D. Player. It has been broken in hard and for the 15,000 miles it sucked down the fuel 10 mpg loaded. Matter of fact it got better fuel mileage on a 250
mile trip thru the mountains most of the driving in 3rd gear below 40 mph... this was the East Coast shure enough montains 12. 5 mpg. A trip to Miami I could not get above 10
MPG now with 32,000 miles I get 13-15 pulling a 34" fifth wheel 22-24 empty. Most of my time loaded I am looking for a ps where are these guys... . where do they hide at.....

 

[Archive]

Don
I believe you are refering to the Cummins upgrade for manual transmissions? I believe the high output (rated better that phourd) specs, which can be retrofitted to your isb, will be standard on the 2000 and change Rams.



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98. 5,24v,3/4 ton,2wd,lsd,5sp
blue box hp enhancement