ISB fuel pump

[Archive]

Scott1, et al,

What interests me in your post about the injector pump/ecm fuel derate is the "was/is" component. Does this suggest that not every ecm derates fuel in the manner you described? Or that the ecm derating the fuel supply only causes problems w/ some of the pumps?

Craig

 

[Archive]

CCollar, I was referring to the pump as it WAS giving me problems with the DC prgm [not anymore #ad
], and that it IS still popping up on trucks that have been built as late 99' models. Hope that clarified it better then my first post where I probably didn't have enough coffee or maybe too much.

SCOTT

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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!

 

[Archive]

Howdy,
I have been reading this discussion with much interest as I just purchased a '99 (7/99 mfg date) QC Ram w/ the 24 valve cummins. I am not sure that I am clear on a couple of issues and I hope that somebody here can help my understanding. Here goes...
1) How can I find out if my fuel pump (I assume VP44) is subject to being damaged by DC's fuel software? There seemed to be some confusion as to which ones were subject to this damage.
2) If my truck suffers from this problem, what do I need to do to fix this so that my truck is not damaged?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

 

[Archive]

I just recieved an email from a fuel injection guru, said one shop he is familiar with has installed about 40 boxes and has had 7 pump failures. He has had 3 pumps fail from broken magnetic pick up rings and losing their timing index. 2 of the cases involved boxes and 1 did not. Sometimes the broken pieces of the timing ring have wrecked the inside of the pump. Other times he has repaired the ring and had no other problems.

He went on to say that he has seen 2 pumps fail from overheating that did have boxes on them. The pump is cooled with excess fuel which is then returned to the tank,when more
fuel is going to the injectors, less is available for cooling.

This is great first hand info (not my hand) from a very knowledgable professional source.
I am starting to wonder if the old pump was a better design for hot rodding since it used engine oil for cooling.

Another source suggests flushing the interior lines (or replacing them) to the injectors and having the injecters flow tested to insure no debris remains after a pump failure. If anything gets downstream of the pump, a restriction will result. A box will force the pump to run at max where otherwise without a box the boost would not come up to cause the pump to raise the fueling state. With a restriction in the system and the box on, the pump may be stressed beyond its limits. This source also asks "Are these people running any additive? Fuel additive may thicken the fuel and this might have a bearing on things in a high horsepower scenario.

So thank you to the two experts who took the time to return my email.

Hope this provides some insite to what is happening in this isb pump.

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98. 5,24v,3/4 ton,2wd,lsd,5sp
blue box hp enhancement

 

[Archive]

Good info HVAC. I was pondering using a fuel additive but the thing that bugs me is if DC/Bosche designed this pump, then in order to avoid future failures, perhaps they should be footing the bill for the additives? Afterall, the majority of the thousands of failed pumps failed in the stock version. #ad


SCOTT
Rammin' with an additive with attitude #ad
#ad
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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!

 

[Archive]

I knew you would eat this stuff up Scott.
One thing though, I think my friend covering the fuel additive question was concerned about the viscosity increase being a negative. If you have a heavier fuel it might stress the pump in particular when you are calling for higher volumes, i. e. , if you have a box on. Heavier fuel would be harder to move wouldn't it? You may have been thinking an additive might provide lubrication for the pump which could prevent problems. Straighten me out if I have this wrong.

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98. 5,24v,3/4 ton,2wd,lsd,5sp
blue box hp enhancement

 

[Archive]

HVAC, I was thinking that after I posted. I remember when my first pump failed they asked me several times if I was using auto trans fluid in the fuel. I wasn't but I have in the 12V's. They stressed NEVER EVER use auto trans fluid with an electronic pump! Maybe cuz it is too thick? That makes sense if the pump cannot handle a thick fluid then thats why they did away with crankcase lubrication but my pumps failed with plain old diesel number 2 in the good ole USA, bone stock. Theres a fella over on the mailing list of Marks from TST that has claimed to have been using auto trans fluid in his truck but I haven't got an answer back if its a 12V or 24V. A good friend of mine just had a pump failure in his sons truck yesterday. HVAC, have you read about it? Someone else once told me that auto trans fluid is to 'abrasive' for the 24V pump... Anybody out there know why auto trans fluid is a NO NO in these trucks?

SCOTT
#ad
Still Rammin' Happy #ad


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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!

 

[Archive]

Why do or did you use ATF with Diesel fuel?
I've heard of this but never knew why.

Don

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"The Shadow" 1999 Dodge Ram SLT 2500 QC 5spd 3. 55lsd, Short Bed, Sport, Black / Tan Interior, Trailer tow package, Camper package, Infinity sound.

Crusing in my Cummins powered Ram.

Lapeer, Michigan

 

[Archive]

Scott - you have me at a disadvantage. My diesel experience begins with the isb. I became fascinated with the Cummins at that juncture. I believe the atf might have some cleansing benifit (detergents). The thought of atf being abrasive doesn't sound right though. Did you add the atf for it's cleaning effect? The addition of atf to your fuel would certainly increase the viscosity to some degree. The pump would surely have a greater challenge as it attempts to move this thicker liquid up to pressure. I believe this is the point a certain diesel mechanic was making. Take that concept and multiply it several times via adding horsepower and the pump gives up.
Some people are having pump trouble, that is a fact. Some of those people have a box, that is a fact. Many of these people don't, that is also a fact. I am extra happy with my Blue Box, not all people installing the Blue Box are experiencing pump trouble, as a matter of fact the frequency is barely over 10%. I propose the weak point is the pump.
Scott is evidence to that conclusion. Scott, did the party you mentioned have a box on their truck?


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98. 5,24v,3/4 ton,2wd,lsd,5sp
blue box hp enhancement

 

[Archive]

One guy had a box on his but I do believe it was the 'ring' you have spoken of that broke.
I was speaking to a friend of mine and he works at the dealership where I buy my trucks. They have a 2000 2500 that has a failed pump... it has 64 kilometers on it and is the owners demo... perhaps that will raise some stink! They called me for feedback on how mine failed. #ad


In regards to the trans fluid being used in the fuel... some truckers years ago said it was very good for the injector pump. Perhaps that has changed with the low sulpher fuels and fuel only lubrication for the pump?
Heck I even know of a few guys that regulary dump their used oil into the fuel system and claim it gives more cetane to the fuel and very good lubricating properties. That one made me a bit nervous.

SCOTT #ad

goin to buy the good ole stand by ... HOWES

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LIFT IT FLIP IT OR...
RAMIT!



[This message has been edited by scott1 (edited 10-06-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

I wonder if the high sulfer fuel would be better for the isb pump, seems like I heard that the high sulfer fuel has better lubricating properties. Anyone know?
Brett

 

[Archive]

Brett, there might be some truth that high sulfer fuel has more lube qualities than low sulfer. During the last 10 or so years a lot of injection pump failers on older construction equipment were blamed on the new low sulfer fuel. The later model pumps are supposed to be cured of this problem. If you can find high sulfer fuel, don't get caught with it in your tank. The fine from DEP is 5 or 10,000 dollars. High sulfer fuel can be used in unregistered construction equipment and farm tractors, generators and stuff. I get off-road fuel, but around here it's low sulfer with red dye in it. I don't use it in my trucks. Can't afford the fine. The DOT will fine you another 5 or 10 grand.