Issues with permatex cure for case bolts

[rebar]

I cleaned and blew out everything, and waited 5 minutes to insure it was dry. But when I removed a oil pump bolt I had used permatex high strength threadlocker on three days earlier, It came out easy, and the threadlocker was wet..

Has anyone had this happen with permatex high strength threadlocker? I maybe guilty of using to much. But I decided I better remove them all again clean blow out wait and use loctite blue this time.

Whats the best product to insure timing case bolts don't come out and do damage short of drilling and wiring?
Thanks

 

[Timd32]

You dont need a ton of that stuff at all.

Most of this stuff does have a shelf life even though we have bottles for many years.

permatex does not list a cure time on their site that I could easily find, but we use the loctite red all the time it can be a few weeks before some fasteners are soildly bonded to the point where serious heat is needed to break the bond. But it should be secure in 24hr.

It is listed that its for M10-25mm and those are M8, but we use it on M4 all the time just a little dab or it will take longer to cure.

For my KDP fix I used the TST kit from Geno's, step 17 was listed to just use RTV, I now think the threadlocker might not work there. Im sure I followed those TST instructions and have not had any issues.

17) Install all of the gear cover bolts making sure to apply a small amount RTV to the threads of each bolt.
There are two different lengths of bolts (longs and shorts) and two studs for the engine speed pick up. Make
sure to get all the bolts back in the right location. Once the bolts are installed and hand tight, torque to18 lb-ft.

 

[rebar]

You dont need a ton of that stuff at all.

Most of this stuff does have a shelf life even though we have bottles for many years.

permatex does not list a cure time on their site that I could easily find, but we use the loctite red all the time it can be a few weeks before some fasteners are soildly bonded to the point where serious heat is needed to break the bond. But it should be secure in 24hr.

It is listed that its for M10-25mm and those are M8, but we use it on M4 all the time just a little dab or it will take longer to cure.

For my KDP fix I used the TST kit from Geno's, step 17 was listed to just use RTV, I now think the threadlocker might not work there. Im sure I followed those TST instructions and have not had any issues.

17) Install all of the gear cover bolts making sure to apply a small amount RTV to the threads of each bolt.
There are two different lengths of bolts (longs and shorts) and two studs for the engine speed pick up. Make
sure to get all the bolts back in the right location. Once the bolts are installed and hand tight, torque to18 lb-ft.

Thanks Timd32..

I plan to use permatex #2 for the outside cover bolts since I can check them easy.. But it's more the bolts on the inside I'm concerned about coming loose. I removed all 10 again and used new loctite blue and went 25 lbs. I guess I will have to assume it will cure. The one behind the cam gear I loosened as much as I could, cleaned, and used green wicking or penetrating thread locker on it and re tightened.

 

[Wayne M.]

I’ve used RTV on wet hole fasteners plenty of times with great success. I understand your concern, especially in that situation.

 

[Matt42]

Threadlockers and other adhesives get old after a while. I can't say how long that while is, though. Much has to do with surface and thread preparation. Many thread lockers and RTV sealants won't adhere to oils or cure in their presence.

Lacquer thinner is often used to clean and prepare surfaces and threads. Most of us don't think about it, but lacquer is really just a really super-light oil. The old style smelly and gooey Permatex No. 2 that we used before RTV was a "thing" worked fine on surfaces prepared with lacquer thinner.

Back in 1993, I was reading the Saturn factory Technical Service Manual for a brand new SW2 I had just bought. (The factory TSM cost me $400 and it was worth every penny.) There was a section on preparing surfaces for sealants. It warned the technicians abut the problems with lacquer thinners and other types of paint thinner. The only kind of preparation liquid that would ensure a good seal with RTV and some thread lockers was isopropyl alcohol, which we call rubbing alcohol. Denatured alcohol would also do the job. The TSM was silent on brake cleaner, but I've had success with it.

So now when I am using any brand of thread locker, I drop the bolts into a can of alcohol and wipe the internal threads with a cotton swab saturated with alcohol. Then I let them dry, which goes quickly. The results have been amazingly good.

Ethanol also works, but it has to be really pure. Everclear is pretty expensive, so let's just not go there.

 

[Shiner]

I read somewhere awhile back that these thread-lockers dry/cure in the ABSENCE of oxygen. Also, this is why when you open and then cap a bottle and go to use months later, sometimes it is hard/unusable. It was suggested to store the stuff uncapped. I tried it, and damned if it didn't work. Try it. I only did it with the .02 oz. tubes.

 

[Shiner]

Threadlockers and other adhesives get old after a while. I can't say how long that while is, though. Much has to do with surface and thread preparation. Many thread lockers and RTV sealants won't adhere to oils or cure in their presence.

Lacquer thinner is often used to clean and prepare surfaces and threads. Most of us don't think about it, but lacquer is really just a really super-light oil. The old style smelly and gooey Permatex No. 2 that we used before RTV was a "thing" worked fine on surfaces prepared with lacquer thinner.

Back in 1993, I was reading the Saturn factory Technical Service Manual for a brand new SW2 I had just bought. (The factory TSM cost me $400 and it was worth every penny.) There was a section on preparing surfaces for sealants. It warned the technicians abut the problems with lacquer thinners and other types of paint thinner. The only kind of preparation liquid that would ensure a good seal with RTV and some thread lockers was isopropyl alcohol, which we call rubbing alcohol. Denatured alcohol would also do the job. The TSM was silent on brake cleaner, but I've had success with it.

So now when I am using any brand of thread locker, I drop the bolts into a can of alcohol and wipe the internal threads with a cotton swab saturated with alcohol. Then I let them dry, which goes quickly. The results have been amazingly good.

Ethanol also works, but it has to be really pure. Everclear is pretty expensive, so let's just not go there.

Everclear….yeah, at least they would LOOK clean after a few belts....