Its a Federal Offense...

[mikepvg]

to burn OFFROAD Diesel in a truck that operates on the hwy but I forgot how much the fine actually is if & when you get caught?



1) I have been previously informed by TDR members in the know that this type of fuel does NO HARM to a diesel engine. As a matter of fact, due to the extra Sulfur content, it actually is good for the engine & pumps like the P7100 in my 1994 CTD. Obviously having a Cat is a problem, 4 the Cat that is... . BUT, what about the current generation of diesel engines, with the higher tolerance HP rails & pumps etc... Is OffRoad Diesel still OK to burn in my 2004 CTD?



2) How do the Feds actually catch you using the red dye stuff & what are the odds that they will?



Thanks Guys!



Mikey

 

[JRD]

Its a $10,000 fine per day of use of the stuff, and they can check it by taking a sample out of your tank known as "dipping" or I have heard of them using a "swab" so to speak and they rub it on the inside of your tailpipe, and if that swab turns colors... you just got fined a minimum of 10,000 big ones. Although I have never seen them use this method, only heard about it... On the other hand, the only real difference between the two diesels are one has more sulfur and no road taxes on it (Off-Road Diesel), thats what makes it illegal to use for hwy use, no road tax. So I see no problems with running it in an HPCR equipped engine. I for one would NOT risk getting caught, but your a grown individual and you will make your own decisions. I wont scold you on how illegal it is.

 

[KKlingbeil]

Im not sure if it is "ok" or not, but john deere tractors have had a HPCR since 1997 on their 12. 5 L motor in the 9000 series 4-wheel drive tractors, and you know what they run for fuel... i would think it would be ok, but dont quote me on it. Also, the feds/dot will dip a small cloth in your fuel tank and when it comes out pink or red they get a little upset. If your not towing on the interstate and pulling into weigh stations you should be ok. Another famous spot for checks is at farm auctions and stuff like that where there is hundreds of trucks lined up along the road; they just walk along and dip the tanks. Also i have heard that they can make you pull your fuel filter, but i wouldn't let them unless they have a new one to put in, but thats just me.



In another note, i get better mileage with farm fuel in my 01 24V, but part of that might be because it is 5% biodiesel. Good luck!

 

[Will24]

It's not actually going to harm anything at all, the sulphur content is identical on on and off road fuels, the dye is just added when the load of fuel is picked up based on whether or not it will be taxed.





-Will

 

[jelag]

Most of my trucks have our name on the side and we're required to scale in a couple of the states we travel... I'm guessing at least once a month one of our guys talks about being inspected at the scales, and almost always in the inspection is a dip of the fuel tank... for comerical trucks its something that happens all the time... .



Now in your personal truck. . naw it isn't going to happen... . on the other hand most locations don't want to take the risk. . and won't sell the fuel unless they know how its going to be used... . all of our fuel cards won't turn a dyed pump... as our commerical fuel supplier knows we don't qualify...

 

[DieselMinded]

What keeps construction trucks that have the in bed tanks from leaving Legal fuel in the factory tank and running a feed from there in bed tank to the motor ???



That way if they get dipped it comes back clean .



DM

 

[KKlingbeil]

What keeps construction trucks that have the in bed tanks from leaving Legal fuel in the factory tank and running a feed from there in bed tank to the motor ???



That way if they get dipped it comes back clean .



DM

I have thought about that too, but you would have to run a return to the aux. tank as well, otherwise it would return red to the the main tank and "dirty" the whole tank. And as i said before, i think they can pull your fuel filter, but i dont know that as a fact... .

 

[RHamner]

If a Farmer has it to run his equip off road, and uses it in his CTD on the farm, wouldn't a dip test come out red even if he added taxed fuel for the road trip? Wouldn't that force him to use taxed fuel even if he uses it off road 90% of the time?



Got to look out for the farmer!

 

[DBoggs]

I have seen the scale in Heber City, Utah on US 40 post signs every so often requiring all diesel powered vehicles, meaning cars, pickups and commercial vehicles to stop for a fuel sample. These tests are performed by the IRS and anyone who doesn't stop is persued by the state patrol and brought back for testing. I won't risk running dyed fuel although it is tempting with prices as high as they are.



Duane

 

[JLovas]

All diesel now is low sulfur, so the only difference is the dye. As a farmer, I'm required to put clear (taxable) fuel in anything with a license plate; everything else (tractors, payloaders, fertilizer spreaders, etc) get red fuel.



Fines for running red fuel are steep and vary by state. It would take a number of years to get "back to even" financially if you got caught with red fuel.



Kklingbeil is right, farm auctions and livestock auctions are hot spots for HP's to check diesel pickups for red fuel. Having a service tank in the box also makes you look suspicious. Certainly there are a lot of people running a supply and return line directly from an in bed tank (that has red fuel in it) to the fuel pump and keep clear in the tank. Most DOT wagons though carry creepers for this reason, and if they get suspicious, they'll crawl under and look for extra fuel lines.



I'm not going to tell anyone what to put in their fuel tank... your pickup, your responsibility. As a farmer, I run clear (taxable) fuel in my pickup and all my trucks. I believe the road tax is the most fair tax we have in this country. If you use the road, pay the tax.

 

[jimnance]

All diesel now is low sulfur, so the only difference is the dye



That may not be true in all cases. At our local wholesaler the red fuel smells differently and is posted as high sulfur fuel.



I run an aux tank in the back of my truck. In the fall/winter it usually has road diesel in it. In the spring/early summer I use it to haul off road diesel to the ranch for the irrigation pump and farm equipment. In late summer it has auto gasoline in it. I wonder if the very small, almost non-existant residual fuel would have enough dye in it to contaminate a sample?



Also, I use Marvel Mystery oil as a supplement to my fuel. It turns the fuel red. I wonder if this could cause problems??

 

[TowPro]

I was told it is a max $10,000 fine, plus taxes due as far back as they can go (figured on some MPG figure) to the point you can prove you purchased on road fuel.



I have a 40 gallon bed tank I use for moving fuel to my diesel filling station inside my garage, and for long camping trips. This tank is not cross connected to the truck tank.



To this point my bed tank has had nothing but diesel in it, but this winter I will have to use it to move heater oil for the garage. The pump still leaves some in the tank when empty so I will have some cross contimanation. I just plan to keep records so I can prove I only run Taxed fuel in the cars and truck. that is one of the advantages of Pacsfic pride, when you use the pump you have to enter miles on the truck and a PIN number. When you get the bill the miles is listed.

 

[MRosinski]

Since you already have injector problems I wouldnt run it just cause I know real well what high sulfur does to injectors on 05's. With low sulfur fuel they have carbon buildup problems and with the high sulfur stuff it gets alot worse. If your gonna run red run low sulfer red

 

[steved]

Most of my trucks have our name on the side and we're required to scale in a couple of the states we travel... I'm guessing at least once a month one of our guys talks about being inspected at the scales, and almost always in the inspection is a dip of the fuel tank... for comerical trucks its something that happens all the time... .



Now in your personal truck. . naw it isn't going to happen... . on the other hand most locations don't want to take the risk. . and won't sell the fuel unless they know how its going to be used... . all of our fuel cards won't turn a dyed pump... as our commerical fuel supplier knows we don't qualify...

Umm, no, No, NO!



I have been pulled over and dipped several times in my absolutely personal truck... got pulled into a scale twice and got "voluntarily" dipped at a rest area. Never once did they ask if it was personal or commercial... it happened in TX, KS, and OK... so don't think because it is a personal truck that they won't... if it is a diesel it is fair game... and it was a stock truck... no smoke, nothing to single me out over anyone else.



Heck, they even pulled me over in OK and checked my trailer chains... on a trailer that has a GVW of 1500 pounds!!! A 4x8 trailer that was empty... pulled over to check my chains... .



It isn't whether you are legal or not, it is whether they can make $$$ fom you or not. So, figure you can get pulled over, low chance (maybe I look guilty or something... maybe those southern boys didn't like pennsylvanians!! :-laf )



I also have accidentally gotten "reefer" fuel which is dyed... pump wasn't marked and no indication... now I give a quick squeeze to make sure it isn't dyed. The last I knew (until this new ULSD) is that dyed and undyed are the same fuel short the dye which is to mark it as taxed or untaxed.



steved

 

[jwduke]

They (IRS) do a lot of checks around here at the sale barns & grain elevators.

 

[wilddiesel]

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think they can check anything without a search warrant. I wonder if anyone has mentioned this before they get checked.

 

[steved]

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think they can check anything without a search warrant. I wonder if anyone has mentioned this before they get checked.

Never thought about that, but I figure it is no different than them giving you a breath-a-lizer... or checking lights for proper wattage bulbs, etc.



steved

 

[klenger]

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think they can check anything without a search warrant. I wonder if anyone has mentioned this before they get checked.

You're probably right, but they can detain you and the truck while they get the warrant.

 

[RustyJC]

Correct me if I am wrong but I dont think they can check anything without a search warrant. I wonder if anyone has mentioned this before they get checked.

I believe the Supreme Court has ruled that this protection applies to your home, not operation of a motor vehicle on a public roadway. They can check you for a license and insurance, they can check you for DWI, and with probable cause, they can search your vehicle for drugs and contraband. Just as the law enforcement officers have the authority to ensure that you're properly licensed and insured to operate your vehicle, they likely have similar authority to ensure that the fuel used in your vehicle has been road-taxed since you're operating on a public road (the latter differentiates this from a "private property - search warrant" situation).



My point - I'd be careful before getting in the enforcement officer's face yelling "You have no right to dip my tank. " Just my opinion, of course... . which is worth exactly what you paid for it!



Rusty

 

[ISBPilot]

another little twist............

During the recent hurricanes, the supposed shortage of fuel (or inability to deliver it) caused a few interesting things to happen. It was reported that the "off-road" ban had been lifted until a given date (the end of Nov. I think). Also during this time, myself along with several other CTD owners got tanks of dyed fuel out of on-road taxed pumps, at the regular on-road price. Now my question is, we have always been told that red fuel will dye your entire system, filter, tank, lines, etc. If so, how can this law be enforced after the use of off-road fuel is stopped. Our systems are going to be dyed and we have done nothing wrong. Are we just up a creek or is this law now null and void?



I also have been stopped in my personal truck for no other reason than to dip my tank. I was given a slip of paper outlining the law and fines for red fuel. It has been a while but I believe it said refusal to allow the officer to dip your tank was the same as being quilty and you would be fined on the spot.



Todd