I've decided to make my truck what it isn't- Ideas please (long, sorry)

[Wayne M.]

I've come to a major decision, I've even placed and deleted my classified ad. It is time for a change and I need ideas and advice. I was going to sell my '92 reg cab automatic, and going to get a 2 gen ext. /quad 5 speeder, but I just can't justify spending over $12-16000 on a truck that is not too much better than mine. I would be "upgrading" to a truck that will have more mileage, will need the KDP fix (I'll do it to mine eventually), will need the 5th gear fix and a clutch, and on and on even after making the purchase, which really will strain me.

Basically I want to update my truck to what I wanted to step up to. That means blowing out the back of the cab, changing to a stick, and raising power a bit (not a total BOMB). This process can be a work in progress as I won't be able to foot the bill for everything at once, but the truck is wearing, just got hit in the bedside, and needs attention now.

I need to know if anyone has done or knows of a vendor who can do quality club/ crew conversions including custom club (non factory/ 2 gen? sheetmetal) and who has done complete auto to NV 5 speed conversions dealing with our transfer case etc. .

I am a competent Mechanic and will handle all mechanical work, but I don't have the resources or space to do coachwork or stretch chassis.

I know I've been quiet around here lately, but I've been pretty busy getting into a new house and having a little Girl added to the family. There just isn't enough room for Me and 2 car seats on one bench! I know I can count the roundtable to enlighten me. Thanks in advance.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Hope these thoughts help some. . .



The most memorable bad feature about the first gen 4x4 is the buckboard suspension. I had an 80 crew cab 4x4 and it was a stout, dependable truck. It had a 360 and later a 440 gas engine. It had the same suspension, springs as the diesel. Even with the long 149" wheelbase, its ride was something I tolerated while I had it. I tried to convince myself it was OK and reflected the heavy duty nature of the beast. I recently drove a friend's first gen diesel 4x4 and was horrified at the brainwashing I had done to myself in the late 80s and early 90s when I had my crew cab



Sorry, but I can't recommend the leaf springs after having a 2nd gen 4x4 club cab with that wonderful coil sprung suspension for the last 7 years. It has gone everywhere for me, gracefully. I was oh so suspicious of the axle disconnect vs. the first gen locking hubs, but have had no failures with my 97, and it is certainly a lot more convenient in bad weather.



The second gen has a better club cab area and it is hard to match a factory cab setup with a conversion. The first gens are deficient in rear seat area space compared to the second gen.



The first gen engine is a fine product, but less amenable to horsepower increases. The p-pumped second gen is so flexible with the great increase in fuel injection pressure. Smoke is easily controlled, the pump is reliable, and even the little 160 hp version easily gives you another 100 hp with just a torque plate change. With the high fuel pressure, you can get more benefit from larger injectors than with the VE pump, and do it with clean burning.



Just my opinions and no offense intended. . .



All in all, I suggest _for your stated purposes_ getting a second gen Ram, or even a new one with that great 4 door arrangement.



Once again, please don't think I'm against the first gen or consider it inferior. They are wonderful trucks and important pieces of history. However, they are not as refined in creature comforts, and their limitations bear directly upon your stated areas of concern.

 

[bmoeller]

For what the ext. cab/crew conversion would cost, you'd be better off with a 2nd. gen truck.



I'm partial to the 1st. gens. myself. Main reasons I got a 2nd. over a 1st was my back doesn't like the ride, the p-pump, and the better ext. cab. There are still quite a few of the 1st gen trucks around here.



If you want/need to stay in a first genner, I would probably try to find a low miler w/ext. cab. They can still be found. There is one less than a mile from me with just <75k on it. Very sharp. 2wd, auto though.



Hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[tugboatphil]

I'm past having small kids to tote around, so I can tolerate the ride of my 1st genners. However, my stepdad had heart surgery this summer which took me back and forth to West Virginia several times a week. I basically stole his 97 club cab 3500 4wd. My excuse was to have more reliable transportation to make the trip. Sadly, I had fallen in love with the ride. I've been in a 90 and a 93 since the summer of 1994. Driving my 1st gen truck is a matter of pride when I see those newer ones coming down the road, but forgive me for saying it, but the only thing I'd do to improve my truck would be to magically change the entire undercarriage to a 2nd gen.



Having said that, with a young family, you'd never regret having the smoother ride. I'll concur that unless you do everything in your own garage, the price of all the mods will chew a big chunk from your wallet. And you can get a good deal on a 2nd gen if you look around. I used http://www.autotrader.com for my newer truck and my wife's car. Ebay has a lot of trucks on a regular basis, but that usually requires transport or a long trip to pick it up. And unless you can get there ahead of time, it's sight unseen. One thing's for sure, you're not going to get a truck that's in it for the long haul like the CTD.



Good luck and good shopping!!

 

[Wayne M.]

Thanks so far, Has anyone done the kelderman air bag kit on the front springs yet? I bet that makes some difference!

Tugboatphil, I've been looking in autotrader for over a month and there are plenty 24 valvers around, but they are too much money. 12 valvers in any shape are scarce. I've been searching in a 300 mile radius and under many ram variations. I saw a 2001 HO 6 speeder 2wd on ebay from a wholesaler in Texas that was in my range, but how the heck do you handle that from New York? Besides it had a cutout in the bedliner where the 5th wheel was.

I don't mind the ride my truck has now-and I mean that, and my 3 year old Son demands that we use it for everything, He will throw a tantrum if we move for the Durango.

I'm getting a bad feeling here, does anyone in the 1st gen topic still drive+love these things anymore? I ran through the current issue of the TDR, and there was a poll and the 1st gen did not place very well in the menbership.

 

[Philip]

does anyone in the 1st gen topic still drive+love these things anymore?

I liked the body style when it came out in 1972. I still like the body style today. Would I trade/buy a later model? NO

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

A lot of us respect the first gens and have a special place in our hearts for these important, groundbreaking-event trucks.



I drive my 1997 4x4 daily and enjoy it. I would suffer with the ride of the first gen, although it is a fine and durable truck. My spine just isn't that durable. I also like the power of the P-pumped truck, but you guessed that already, didn't you.



I suggest you keep an eye on eBay. I saw two second gen 12 valves go today at the $8000 range, one in Tx and one in Az. Plane tickets aren't very expensive. If you find a truck you want to bid on, post it here and you will probably find at least one or two TDR members there who will look at it for you, send photos, etc. If you do win it, they will probably help you get it shipshape for the trip back to NY.



Walt Koziarz is a long time member, lives in Rome NY and has a 90 4x4 that gives up to 25 mpg. He loves it. His son basically has hijacked it, and Walt isn't too upset as he now has an 01 or 02 (I forget) 6 speed HO.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

HEY... ... someone told me there was some 1st Gen whippin goin on in here... ...



I'll have you guys know we don't sign on for no wussy rides..... it's gotta be back bustin, neck snappin, head bruisin, lumpy, epileptic siezure nasty (no offense)... . the more the better too..... course that may explain why I was 6' when I bought it and I'm only 5'6" now too... ... .....

You gotta luv a truck that don't need an electronic pacemaker, or two times the valves to run decent..... $55. 00 and pizza and you're good to go... ...





Pastor Bob

Our Lady Of Acceleration Church...

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

A lot of us respect the first gens and have a special place in our hearts for these important, groundbreaking-event trucks.



I drive my 1997 4x4 daily and enjoy it. I would suffer with the ride of the first gen, although it is a fine and durable truck. My spine just isn't that durable. I also like the power of the P-pumped truck

I couldn't have said it better.



I was test driving 1st. genners before I drove any 2nd. when I was looking for a truck before buying my '97. Hard to beat a truck with a "REAL" (gear driven) t-case either.



I wish they still made the 1st. gen. trucks. Plenty of room in the engine compartment too. Oo.

 

[DKasper]

I've looked into the Kelderman suspension for the rear of my '93 D350. I called Kelderman and actually got the names of a couple of guys that had put it on my type of truck.



After talking with them, I've decided to get it. Both of the guys I talked with said it totally changed the way the truck rode -- made it very comparable to a 2nd gen was the way one user put it.



I love my '93 truck, but the ride is a lot rougher than the '99 4x4 that I had! This might sound dumb, but be sure not to overlook the inflation pressure of your rear tires. I usually put mine up around 70lbs when hauling, but I can always tell when I forget to drop it back down to about 45 when I'm empty. Fronts I leave at 75lbs.



Cheers,



Dave

'93 D350, Westach Pyro/boost, pump tweaked a little, waiting on 16cm housing from Piers . . .

 

[Greenleaf]

1st Gens........Gotta Love 'em

You gotta luv a truck that don't need an electronic pacemaker,or two times the valves to run

Not to mention BULLET PROOF, no nonsense power!

 

[MrWinkey]

Just do like I do... . when I get tired of the ride I throw a camper on it or something. Rides like a caddy then!



I have heard the velvet ride shackels help out alot and you can lift the truck up a little also if you want. I got my truck to be able to haul alot and I would worry about how it would affect the ride when loaded. I hate to make it squat to the pavement.

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

Wayne,

Might I suggest you buy a 1981 to 1985 Dodge Crew Cab and install your running gear and Cummins in it ? you should be able to buy one under $1500 to $3000 that is clean and no rust. Check out my truck in readers rigs. there are mostly pictures of my 1985 Dodge/Cummins/4X4 conversion(only 1 of my 2001) which I have now done twice thanks to the first one being hit by someone who couldn't read a stop sign. You might find it interesting that most of it is a bolt on conversion . As for the ride, Air lift bags on the rear, and toss the over loads springs. For more power, replace the injection pump(and timing cover) with one from a 1994 to early 1998, add some POD injectors 4" exhaust, and a 12cm wastegated turbo and go YEE HA

PM if you have any questions.

Kyle

 

[hdm48]

Ok, sure, my truck rides rough. I knew that when I bought it. But the old girl does everything I need it to do and a lot more. Plus it looks good. I am one of those that never liked the new design and the new ones make me barf.

If I wanted a rig that rides like a car, i would have bought a car!!

Sure it's getting old, but so am I. And my wife says I still ride like I was 20. OOOPS! sorry

Anyway, untill Dodge makes a truck that looks good again instead of a land locked tuna sucking wind, I'm gonna stick with my Dodge vibrator.



Dave

 

[TSuter]

Personally, both me and my wife like the way the first gen rides. She said it best when we were test driving 2nd gens, " this isn't truck it's a jacked up car" of course she also says mine is a wimp truck for being an auto. Sometimes you just can't win

When I take long trips I throw some steel plate in the back, rides like a Caddy then.



Tom

 

[C. Harlan]

I miss my '91 dearly!!!

Everytime I see someone cruising in a good looking 1st gen, I always give them a smile, and #ad
. . It was my first truck, and we abused it like any high schooler back then would, but that mighty CTD, no intercooler, never let me down. at all. I have to say, that was the best truck, and I got a big lump in my throat when I traded her for the decked out 98 6BT I own now. I love my truck now more than anything, but will always have a soft spot for my old 91 with so many miles the odometer got tired of making circles, it just plain stopped. I say KEEP IT!!!!



-Chris-

 

[OnlyCummins]

I think most of the complaints concerning the bad ride of the 1st gen have to do with the front springs practically riding on the bump stops! Especially true for older trucks with tired front springs. From what I've read here & elsewhere the fix for that is a slight lift in the front to allow for more spring compliance. Most folks probably may not think that's too practical but take a look at the newest Dodge truck -- that thing looks like a mini-semi rolling down the road, especially in dually form.



As for modding the cab: I really think you'd be better off starting out with an extended cab for that. Reason being, I think it'd be far easier to graft an extension onto an already extended cab. Here's a pic as an example. I'd opt for a single rear window on each side so long as structural integrity wasn't compromised. If you really wanted to go crazy you could always do this. Seriously tho, either option is some serious money -- I'm guessing $5K+ easily -- so I really don't think it's a very practical idea considering your budget constraints.



Add the cost of manual conversion at around $1500 & you're talking about a serious chunk of change. And that's totally ignoring the time you'll have in it. FWIW, if I were doing something like that I'd opt to start with an EC with 5spd.



Good luck with whatever you decide.