Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Jet A

[PABurns]

Looking to run JET A in place of #2 diesel. Any comments or fuel additives needed.

 

[rweis]

Do a search.



I remember somewhere there are instructions about running different fuels and what you can and can not do.



Bob Weis

 

[stevek]

Add some serious lube to it as it WILL kill a VP44 in a matter of miles... .

 

[jwinnie]

Jet A is more like kerosene than diesel, very little lube.

you must be getting it cheap



I don't think I'd run it but best of luck, let us know how you make out.



John

 

[RobbyRam]

I recall reading a post from Iraq that they were using JP4 jet fuel in their Hummers but they were breaking down until they added 30 weight non detergent oil or marvel mystery oil or something else and since, have had no problems. You could do a 'search' on Iraq.

Bob in Sacramento

 

[MD500E]

There are additives available to run Jet-A in diesels. Almost all of the airport fueling trucks run it every day. Ask any airport re-fueler or search the Internet for Jet-A additives. There is at least one company who sells it on-line but I forgot the name.

 

[BV]

What fuel to run

Check this out:

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/98ISBspecs.html



I was just reading this:

1998-2000 24 Valve Recommended Fuel



#1-D Diesel or #2 Fuel Oil (diesel) only.



Under emergency conditions, 1K & 2K Kerosene, Jet-A, Jet A-1, JP-5, and JP-8 may by used if 5% lube oil is added to the fuel. DO NOT run the VP44 Injection pump on these alternate fuels without the lube oil - pump damage is likely without a lube additive!

 

[PABurns]

JP-4 I think is a blend of 115/145 avgas with kerosene. You would never want this. Talked with USDieselParts and ordered Stanadynes Lubricity Formula, though THEY DID NOT RECOMEND

RUNNING JET-A this was the best fuel lube additive they had. Maybe even doubleing the prescribed dosage. I'm gonna try it and see what happens. I also have known of avation companies

running Jet-A in ground power units and tugs, deicing equipment

and no noticable side affects. Keep in mind these units run sometimes 18-20 hrs a day. And for years no problems. I know they are not all 24vlv. ISB engines but am just curious.

 

[tgbol]

Curiosity killed the cat! Good luck!

 

[Rockcrusher]

Originally posted by RobbyRam

I recall reading a post from Iraq that they were using JP4 jet fuel in their Hummers but they were breaking down until they added 30 weight non detergent oil or marvel mystery oil or something else and since, have had no problems. You could do a 'search' on Iraq.

Bob in Sacramento

JP4 is closer to gasoline than diesel.

 

[MacGreenie]

Jet A in Cummins....

We run it in our helicopters (GE T-64-419 Turboshaft Motors) and then in our utility boats which are powered by a marinized version of the CUMMINS ISB... no VP-44 pump.



Our Ground Power Units are Detroit Diesels that run uncomplainingly on the stuff for hours as well as light carts, hydraulic generators, cranes and our GM pickups!



I, too, wonder what Jet-A would do to a VP-44... . I won't test that personally, however!



Mac

 

[stevek]

We run JetA in all the fuel trucks here, and again no VP44's in site. We try to put some additive in once a month as we noticed some gunk on the injectors once, but apart from that no major difficulties. Now, once we had a Freightliner with an ISB and VP44 and had to run JetA in a pinch and guess what--truck made it three miles down the road before the injector pump seized. Glad it was a rental... hehe.

 

[klenger]

JP4 is not the same as Jet A. Jet A is used in commercial and corporate turbine engines. JP4 is used by the military, but I have no idea what in.



Many years ago when I was working at the airport in Denver, main power supply to our building was damaged due to an explosion in the couduit feeding the 440 vac 3 phase into the building (nicks in the wire caused water in the conduit to superheat and explode). We were w/o commercial power for about a month while they were waiting parts and repairs. We had 2 or 3 diesel generators that supplied power during that time, which they fueled with Jet A because our partner company sold fuel. I assume that they added something to the fuel for lubrication, but have no idea what. Anyway, the generators worked fine as long as they didn't run out of fuel. We also had a couple of mechanics with VW diesels and I think one guy with a 1st gen Dodge that would use Jet A that was defueled from aircraft in for maintenance.

 

[Chief USA]

JP-4 is no longer used by the military to a great extent and for the most part all services are moving to JP-8 usage except for the Navy which uses JP-5 for its flame retardant properties aboard ship. JP-5 = Jet A JP-8 = Jet A-1 JP-4 = Jet B. Most if not all Jet fuels have PRIST added for anti-icing and microbiocide protection. As far as bang for the buck: Jet A is the best at 6. 8 lbs/gal. followed by Jet A-1 at 6. 7 lbs. /gal. JP-4 is 6. 5 lbs. /gal. and Jet B is 6. 3 lbs. per gal. Burn the Jet A whenever possible and add GENEROUS amount of fuel additive containing a quality lubricant for the pump and injectors. This information is out of TM 1-1520-237-10. Some of the UH-60 Blackhawk pilots out there should recognize that manual as the Operator's Manual For UH/EH-60A/L Helicopter's. The best way to burn Jet A is to mix it in with the #2 diesel especially during winter months. How much Jet A have you got to burn? I dump Kerosene in mine to burn it up at the end of winter if I have any left over. Just use a good lubrication additive and you should be fine. Heck, Mercury is manufacturing an outboard 250 hp motor for the Navy Seals that burns JP-5 & JP-8.

 

[PABurns]

It appears that Fleetguard has come up with a system. It is the FS20000 slow release lubricity-enhancing fuel system.

Here is the link.

http://www.fleetguard.com/fleet/pdfs/product_lit/fleetguard_brochures/LT15200.pdf

 

[Jamie Attridge]

Does the Jet A make more power? I to have access to alot of Jet A for a good price?

 

[PABurns]

#2 Diesel has a higher boiling range (in temperature) and is more dense than Jet A and #1 diesel. A fuel that is less dense will produce less BTU's per gallon therefore you will get less gas mileage. As far as power I could not say, but would assume that #2 would have more. Also Jet-A has about 1/3 the lubricating

properties of #2 diesel. This is why I was looking for a suitable lube additive. I have not yet talked to Fleetguard but am hoping

to get some positive feedback. As Cummins, I think owns Fleetguard. The new slow release lube-enhancing system from Fleetguard I hope will be the answer. I am sure there are a lot of folks out there that could have access to Jet-A for a good price.

But it would'nt be cost effective if you have to buy a new injector pump.

 

[schu777]

Okay - if you got a cheap price on the Jet A - I know where you could go and sell 20 to 40 gallons to each guy - Just go to a large Jet Rally (remote control jets with turbines) - just way too cool...



Here are some interesting sites for those that are wondering just what this is all about:



www.bvmjets.com

www.mvjs.com <- my web site with info about next weeks event. .



Michael

 

[GWHaley]

Those are some cool sites-never knew they had "real" mini jet engines. Amazing what you learn on the 'ol TDR.

 

[MD500E]

I have had jet-A delivered for as little as 60 cents a gallon a few years back. Most recently I think I paid about 1. 20 That is the price for 1000 gallons delivered. I dont burn it in my 24 valve but i do run it from time to time in a john Deere tractor and a few other diesels that have mechanical injection pumps, by mixing in a little 10-30 motor oil.