Jetta tdi vs hybrid

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

I'm contemplating a new commuter car. I always told myself that my next vehicle (in addition to the CTD) would be the Jetta or Passat TDI, but now as I've been talking with my wife the question of a suv hybrid like the Toyota Highlander or the Ford Escape Hybrid have come up. I'm interested in some real world experience with any of these vehicles, especially long term reliability such as people with 100k miles or more on them. I've read all the different reviews on the vehicles and about hybrids in general and there are very polarized views it seems. Either the hybrid will do anything you need it to do and more or it will depreciate so fast and the batteries will wear out and need to be replaced to the tune of 2-3k dollars. So, have at it... I appreciate the input and respect the opinions of the TDR membership.



Thanks in advance,



Kyle

 

[WCPoe]

Similar thoughts

Kyle - Unfortunately I can't provide any real world experience. I have been contemplating a fuel efficient every day short trip car, (less than 20 mile round trips). I'd probably lean towards the TDI's or maybe something like the new Honda Civic. The little 140hp sedan gets 30/40 mpg and moves out fairly well.



2007 Honda Civic Sedan - the Official Honda Web Site



By the way didn't Honda just recently pull the Hybrid Accord from the market because it only got about 4 more mpg than the standard? It wasn't all that cost effective overall.

I think I'm probably going to wait a while. Although the Highlander would be my choice over the Ford. Sooner or later we should see some diesel hybrids with stellar economy appear on the market.

Keep us posted on your research.

Bill

 

[TRoss]

George F. Will from the Washington Post has an interesting column headlined "Fuzzy Climate Math" or something like that. In it he references this website:



Automotive Energy



It has some information on hybrids, but don't take it as absolute truth, obviously. I don't have any personal experience with hybrids. Consumer Reports had some negative things to say recently about hybrids while praising the future of diesels, and they don't tend to take our side on much, so that is telling. I'm not quite sure where to find that, but here is a critical response to that review in CR



Consumer Reports and Hybrid Cars: What Do You Need To Know



From what I understand, climate can affect batter life and performance. I recall that you live in AZ, right, which I would consider an extreme climate, though it seems like hot and dry is preferable to cold, so that might be to your benefit. I don't know.



One thing CR was clear about (as I recall) is that TDIs tend to get better economy than they are rated for, while hybrids tend to get worse with each additional variable. If it were me, I'd get a TDI and start making some Biodiesel, you could cut your fuel costs to next to nothing, have a fun car to drive, and a vehicle that you know will be reliable for many miles to come (keep those timing belts changed is all I ever hear about them). As for hybrids, well, they might last for a really long time . . . but no one knows yet, and they vary so widely in performance and economy, its hard to know what you're going to get. My $0. 02 (I know, quite a bit for a guy without any actual experience, oops)

 

[RJWEST]

If a Laptop battery replacement Is $$$$$$$$

? Hybrid battery replacement $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>>>>> Bet you could buy a lot of diesel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[nickleinonen]

when i move to the new home, i will have space for a commuter car. . i am going to be looking for a late 80's/early 90's vw diesel. .

i have heard of some swapping in tdi engines with a ve pump from a peugeot [apparently vw provided the engines for them, that were tdi but mechanical injection... ?]

 

[JBonpua]

I have a 01 VW Beetle 1. 9 TDI with 135K miles as my commuter car. I get between 48-51 mpg highway and 38-43 city hand calculated. In my opinion, you will be better off with a TDI. My 06 MC CTD is my Sunday car.

 

[JimKing]

I have a project nearing completion in Yuma. . I live North of Cottonwood. I drive my 06 VW TDI to Yuma evey Wed Wed. morning, home every Fri. afternoon. I record every tankfull and hand check mileage. After 26K (in 11 months) my average mileage is 44. 8 mpg. My co-worker drives from Phoenix, in his 06 Prius. His average economy is "around 40", according to his estimate. (closer to 35 per his wife) I would wonder about the life expectancy of the battery(s) in Az. heat. I read the consumers report article which was not complementary to any of the manufacturers current battery technology... The Jetta is just a sweet little car. Goes like a B outta H and you can get 50 Mpg out of it, if you keep a very light foot and ain't in a hurry...

 

[TRoss]

Goes like a B outta H

Anyone else a Dane Cook fan and find that funny? I'm sorry to use harsh letters.



That being said, is anyone going to chime in and defend those cute little hybrids? I guess you asked about them on a diesel forum (and compared to a legendary little diesel engine, to boot) so maybe you already knew which one you wanted and just needed us to tell you it was ok



surely there is a hybrid forum out there where people sit around and rant and rave over their cars, I mean, thedieselstop has members, so anything is possible :-laf. If you ever got any positive feedback from a hybrid forum somewhere, I'd be interested in seeing it posted here just to balance this discussion out a little. truth be told, the TDI is better technology and is going to do better for you all around (longevity, economy, power, fun) but perhaps there are some redeeming qualities to the hybrids that we all need to know. They're probably quiet, for what thats worth . . . I mean, my girlfriend has talked about one, but I told her I don't think they're what they pretend to be, but as I say . . . I'd be interested in hearing differently

 

[JasonCzerak]

hybrid's city only?

It makes logical sense to me that a hybrid would do best in stop and go and not so well on the highway.



What do these prisus get in a day's worth of downtown driving vs. TDI in downtown?

 

[oneshotkyle]

don't hybids take electric power to charge them. that's gotta cost something to the equation. what about battery acid and how bad that is in the landfills. from what i've heard these green friendly hybrid cars are just as bad if you take all those things in consideration.

 

[RDusch]

Read here
and here
and here
and here
and here

and there is a hundred more with all the same outcome

Rick

 

[Jefff929]

Our TDI is awesome. We have had a few problems, nothing major.



It is the Mrs. d/d and we use it for long trips. She went to MN and back to OR about 4,000 mile trip on less than 100 gal of fuel.

 

[TRoss]

does anyone know what its like to work on a hybrid? that has always been one of my biggest question marks, what do you do when something goes wrong?



one interesting point that occurred to me: hybrids charge the batteries with the gas engine, but also with the energy generated by braking, this is one thing the diesels don't have. sort of like a turbocharger, that seems like it should be free energy, recovering waste energy that would otherwise be lost as heat. most tests occur over long distances, but I wonder if it might not be a little closer if both vehicles were tested over the long term in constant stop&go traffic, the TDI would probably still outperform, but it might not be quite so embarassing.



that being said, if the diesel could ever figure out a way to harness that braking energy, well then it just gets embarrassing again

 

[Regcabguy]

Last new TDI Jetta in Ca.

My buddy is general manager of a VW dealer here in SoCal. He called me about a unique TDI he got in. No sunroof(worthless to me) and manual transmission. I'm a big guy(6'4") and after adjusting the seat,I found the driving position quite comfortable and the car drove better than any manual trans. vehicle I'd ever driven. Those things have so much low end torque,I feel it'd be darn near impossible to stall one. Well we choked and it went to the next guy. Conversely,I sat in an upscale Prius that felt similiar to sitting in a sand chair at the beach. I was sitting so low to the floor that my knees were way up in the air. When I elevated the power seat,my head was touching the ceiling. My wife couldn't get comfortable either and she's only 5'7". :{

 

[RMachida]

I have also been considering the Prius and Jetta TDI to replace my wifes Suburban and I'm leaning towards the Prius. It has a hatch and a bigger backseat. My neighbor has one and loves it and doesn't have any problem even during AK winters (probably considered a harsh environment). He mentioned that it had a very good heater putting out heat before leaving the driveway. I used to have an old VW diesel rabbit and it never put out much heat even after a long drive but did get 50+ mpg. My wife does a lot of short trips in town which is ideal for a hybrid.

 

[HGreen]

I can't add any first hand experience, but when my oldest daughter was looking at Ford Escapes, the salesman told us a story about an Escape hybird that they had in the shop that the owners weren't too happy about, it need a front brake job, $600, where a regular one would have been about $125. It seems that the hybirds with their extra weight, were hard on the front brakes and the front end design was different than the regular Escape and requires more labor to take it apart.

 

[LRundberget]

Get the TDI if you want good MPG and reasonable maintenance costs. The Prius can get fairly good MPG but most people cannot keep their foot out of it. Think about it, have you seen many conservative drivers in a Prius? Every one I have seen from a light takes off like a jack rabbit. Little known facts of the Prius is that both the gas and electric engines can supply power to the wheels when needed. The electric motor has just about a flat torque curve meaning that just about full power is available at the lowest RPM of the electric motor.

Second reason to get the TDI is all that extra weight and complexity of the Prius just does not make it a good contender for cheap mileage. It adds to the upfront cost of the vehicle and the maintenance.



My . 02

 

[jeepit]

A Hybrid may be good for stop & go and stuck in highway traffic type driving. Where we live we have niether. We went with a Jetta and so far really like it and the mileage it can get. Winter 40 mpg and summer 45mpg average. No problems at all with it...

 

[EGroeneveld]

My wife has a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid and loves it. We have about 20,000 miles on it since August 30, 2006 when we bought it new by ordering it. We get about 36mpg in town and an easy 39/40 on the highway. If we are in a hurry on the freeway we can still get about 38mpg at 80mph My wife loves the car. I also think its a great car if you want to get a little larger car then the Prius or the VW's. Once my wife drove a Camry she was done shopping. The Prius was to ugly and the VW reliability scared her, (her brother had a couple of crappy VW in the last decade). Our next door neighbor also just brought home a new Camry Hybrid.



Also we have had NO problems at all, and the batteries are warrantied for 160,000 miles. The dealership we bought at had still not replaced any hybrid batteries ever. Toyota tuning does not let the batteries overcharge or get to low so they should last to almost 200,000 miles.



We love ours. The more gas money she saves the more I can burn in by pickup or other trucks

 

[Jefff929]

EGroeneveld I would have thought the Camry's would do better. :--) that is sad.

Our 02 TDI gets 40-42 city, 47-48 hwy. One time I pulled it down to about 40 mpg hwy, driving fast in another state. OR freeway listed speed is 65 near my house. It does get better fuel mileage when the Mrs. drives it :-laf



When we went shopping for cars our choices came down to the Camry or the Jetta. We went with the Jetta for mpg.