Jetta tdi vs hybrid

[EGroeneveld]

I'm just saying we are happy with our choice. It was our choice, you have your choice and you can do what you want. I'm not sure on the measurements but I think a Camry for size should really be compared to a Passatt? If I was looking at a Jetta I would be comparing it to a Civic Hybrid. remember size does matter My wife previously was driving a Ford Excursion (which we still have as our 6th vehicle) and did not want to go down to a Jetta sized vehicle. We did look at them and I was impressed compared to what I remember from the 90's. Our choice really ended up being between the Camry Hybrid and the Mercedes E320 diesel. We saved $25,000 with the Camry and got $ 4,100 in state and federal tax credits too Its not what you spend its what you save.



What I'm really waiting for now is for BMW to put a diesel in the 3 series. I'd buy one tomorrow. Motor Trend and Car&Driver keep saying coming soon, or here is what they get to drive in Europe!!

 

[JasonCzerak]

...

got $ 4,100 in state and federal tax credits too Its not what you spend its what you save.

...

I find the tax credits unfair when it's been proven over and over that diesel's of the same class get better over all mileage and the manf. 's have been inflating claims. Kinda unfair ya think?

Use CTD owners should get a large tax credit cuz ya know, that hemi sure would use a little more fuel...

correction, you can get diesel credits. . just not for our trucks.

ACEEE - Vehicle Tax Credits in the Energy Bill

funny how the hybrid GMC's get crap for millage... what a waste of everything there.

 

[AKaiser]

Calling today's hybrid cars environmentally friendly is a joke. If you compare the total energy input into the manufacture of the TDI versus any current model hybrid, you will find that the total lifetime energy costs, excluding R&D, are very high in hybrids due to use of expensive precious metals, for the batteries, that have to be extracted from the earth at a very high energy cost.



Buy the TDI now, and let the car companies and Uncle Sam spend the money on better battery technology, unless you just want to spend money.

 

[EGroeneveld]

Yep the Hybrid credits of $ 4,100 for state and Federal made the Hybrid cost the same as getting a fully loaded 4 cyclinder model. I don't always agree with tax credits but I'll take advantage of them when I can.

 

[RDusch]

Prius not so environmentally friendly

Here is another good article,



------------------------------------------------------------------------



Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.



The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.



“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.



All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam. ’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?



Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.



When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.



Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3. 25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.



The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1. 95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.



So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0. 48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.



One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.



Via Central Connecticut State University Recorder Online





link



Rick

 

[EGroeneveld]

Here is another good article,



------------------------------------------------------------------------



Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.



The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.



“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.



All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam. ’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?



Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.



When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.



Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3. 25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.



The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1. 95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.



So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0. 48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.



One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.



Via Central Connecticut State University Recorder Online





link



Rick

Actually this study was slammed so hard it wasn't even funny. Basically their assumptions where out of line and again this study proves that anyone can make a study say what they want it to. Garbage in, equals garbage out.

 

[klenger]

The Prius costs an average of $3. 25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

So, let me get this straight, 100,000 miles @ $3. 25 / mile = $325,000. 00 to operate a Prius? Fuzzy math.

 

[RDusch]

The $. $$ per mile figure for all the vehicles are dust to dust figures, from the start of manufacturing threw the life span of the vehicle and then disposal costs.

Rick

 

[RGardner]

I don't know about the figures but I have thought for a long time that the Hybrids were a publicity stunt, if the government weren't subsidising then how many do you thing would sell? If they truely want to save fuel convince the public that a diesel is the way to go. How about a little Kubota diesel in a small car? Think that would do the trick?

 

[Extreme1]

Actually this study was slammed so hard it wasn't even funny. Basically their assumptions where out of line and again this study proves that anyone can make a study say what they want it to. Garbage in, equals garbage out.

Yes and no. When I heard about this on the radio I pulled up Google Earth and found Sudbury by looking for a dead (brown) spot. The area was decimated years ago but the current emission laws are supposed to remedy that.



As for the TDI/Prius argument, the TDI will get better milage and I fit in one much better. But, the TDI does take a few miles to warm up in the winter (not much of a problem for us). My brother-in-law recently bought a Prius. He lives really close to work and the diesel would not have been a good fit but he was considering it initially. Our TDI is quieter than our beater '99 Hyundai too.



Our best TDI milage has been over 50 mpg, the worst (cold, short trips) was 35 mpg.

 

[Champane Flight]

Bug

We have a TDI bug 02, it has been a good little car, I have gotten 63 for a high mpg and 32 for a low, it avg around 45-50. No big problems, I got a Vag-com program downloaded on my laptop, and the OBD-2 plug in/interface when I got a check engine light. It easliy read the problem as a single glow plug failure, and I replaced all of them for around $60, easy fix, ten MM deep well socket, just like a spark plug change, back on the road in ten minutes.



If you are looking for a little extra room check out the TDI Jetta wagon, it has loads more room than the ugly prius. That car has got to be the uglyist car on the road today, except for the new chevy pickups, UGH!:-laf

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

Thanks for everyone's input... this showed up in the driveway this weekend...

 

[JBonpua]

Beautiful! I assume is a TDI and not a gasser correct? You’ve made a good choice over the Hybrid.

 

[CCahill]

Awesome car... my choice also

BTW, to add to the diesel/hybrid topic... think about all the moving parts in a hybrid... and that includes the dual a/c system, and the heater system... when the engine goe's from gas to batteries, and back these systems are constantly turning themselves on and off, and on, and off...

then consider the diesel's moving parts... . all this for a dad whose daughter just wouldn't listen... she had to have a Prius, 'cause it's so green..... :-{}. . right, honey... anything you say...

plus this too...

eBay Motors: Dodge : Other Pickups (item 150147926945 end time Aug-09-07 14:52:17 PDT)

 

[GHarman]

Diesel is "Greener" than a "Lowbred" er 'scuse me, a Hybrid. 'Course thats not P/C. . Tough, Its the truth. GregH

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

Yes, it is a TDI with the 6 spd DSG transmission. Only other factory options are the tire pressure monitoring system and sirius radio.



Unfortunately, it gets to sit in the driveway... it loses out to the CTD, the Jeep and my wife's Camry. Though, I think the problem not having enough garage space... not having too many vehicles!

 

[Todd G]

That looks just like mine. I just got the 2006. 5 Diesel Edition with 6sp DSG. Nice transmission for an auto. Getting 40mpg in the city!

 

[JohnCarr]

I had a 1978 VW diesel Rabbit that got 50mpg. Why hasn't the mpg improved in almost 30 years?

 

[Champane Flight]

I can

I had a 1978 VW diesel Rabbit that got 50mpg. Why hasn't the mpg improved in almost 30 years?

The mileage has not improved, but the power and reliablity has!

 

[Jefff929]

I had a 1978 VW diesel Rabbit that got 50mpg. Why hasn't the mpg improved in almost 30 years?

Comparing a Rabbit to a Jetta really isn't fair, 120hp+ golf maybe.



Kinda like compareing a hemi to a cummins.