John Deere starting problem

[merryman]

My 1976 John Deere 310 is driving me crazy.

After it has sat for a few days, it will start fine--takes a little cranking, but allways starts. If I run it for awhile till its good and warm, shut it down and try to restart in from a few minutes to an hour or so, it acts like a very low battery.

Meter on it while running shows 13 + volts.

Thinking it might be a draging warm starter, replaced starter, no help.

Replaced batteries (twice) no help.

I would appreciate any ideas/



Vaughn

 

[ramman]

Is it gas or diesel ?

 

[moparguy]

Vaughn, on my 78 310A, if you happen to kill the engine while working, (wrong gear, rpm to low for job, that kind of thing), you've got to lower the bucket and or rear boom to totally unload the hydrulics, otherwise the starter is trying to turn both the engine and pump. It'll sound just like a low battery when you try to restart, wiggle a controll lever till all built up pressure is gone, and it spins and starts great.



May not be your problem, if not, and all the battery cables/starter connections are tight and clean, I don't know.



Good luck, Ronnie

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Hard start JD

Vaughn: Have you replaced the battry cables. Those are a common problem on older tractors. Even a cable that looks good may be corroded on the inside and cause tremendous resistance. If you can jump around the cables and it starts better, you have found the problem.

 

[merryman]

Thanks for the suggestions guys---its a diesel a little 3 cylinder Diesel--sure a small engine considering the work it will do.

I had not thought about the hydrolic system drag. Must try that.

Also today I replaced the second battery cable--had replaced one that looked suspect a month or so ago. Thanks

Vaughn

 

[Groover]

Have a JD 3020 with hydraulic steering. It won't start unless you turn the steering wheel back and forth rapidly. Look like a fool doing it but it unloads the hydraulics and lets engine turn easier.

Try it ! Nothing to lose.



Ps 3020 is a 4 cyl diesel 80 HP

 

[merryman]

Problem solved!



While trying various things, I ran a jumper cable from neg. post of the battery directly to a starter mounting bolt. Engine spun much better so I added a short battery cable from the end of the neg. cable where it attached to the transmission casting, to a mounting bolt on the starter. I used the hoe several hours yesterday and stopped it three times, once for 45 min. It spun well and fired right back up each time.



Vaughn

 

[ISBPilot]

Groover............

... ... ... . I thought we had to do that just because all our J. D. s were old and wore out. Between my Grandpaw and Uncle we have a 2020 and 2030 both loader tractors with front and rear hay forks and a 1530 for field work. All of em' crank easier with a little "steering wheel priming". Of course they were all built back in the 60's and 70's too. :-laf :-laf



Todd

 

[Groover]

ISB PILOT... ...

My John Deere's have always been pretty well worn out. Am in the process of rebuilding my 1956 model 80 right now. The cylinders have already been sleeved and need it again. This is a 472 cubic inch 2 cylinder with 6-1/8" pistons.



I think the hydraulic unloading of John Deere's needed when starting has to do with the type of hydraulic system that JD uses. Unlike other tractors the John Deere has a closed loop system and the hydraulic pump runs under full pressure all the time. Most other tractors produce hydraulic pressure on demand and recirc freely when hydraulics not in use.

 

[illflem]

Close Groover, older JDs have what's called a closed center hydraulic system. The pump doesn't run unless there is demand. Open center systems run all the time.

 

[Groover]

Illflem, Keeping this friendly but... You did come up with the correct description that escaped me earlier (closed center). However I beg to differ about the pump operating only on demand. The John Deere hydraulic pump runs all the time as do other systems. The difference being in the return path to the reservoir. Open center can freely return oil to the res'v when there is no demand. Closed center has to create pressure above the preset before it can return oil to the res'v ..... or something like that. My real point was that the steering or other type of hydraulic unloading is mostly a JD thing as most other tractors are open center hydraulics.

 

[illflem]

No problem with a friendly argument but beg to differ. JD uses a variable displacement pump. Oil is pumped to control valve (dead end) until it reaches working pressure. At this point the pump stops pumping oil - only when the oil has somewhere to go (i. e. . control valve is activated and work cylinder moves) does the pump resume pumping oil.

Read about it here



Closed center is supposedly more energy efficient because the pump actually shifts into neutral with no flow. Instead of a open center's relief valve a closed center has an accumulator to store pressurized fluid and a control valve that uncouples the pump from rotation when there is no demand. My main complaint with closed center is that it takes a long time for the fluid to warm if you aren't using the hydraulics. Another problem with closed center is if there is continuous flow i. e. a hydraulic motor or internal leak the fluid easily overheats. They are also more expensive, complex and harder to repair than o. c. JD finally gave up and joined everybody else in using open center in Ag tractors just a few years ago.

 

[Jammar9082]

ILLFLEM: That Australia web site is quite interesting. I was able to find a work- around solution to my worn out gear driven hydraulic pump on my 1965 Ford 3000 diesel.



I did not find a USA dealer. Do you have any more tractor sites on this side of the Pacific that you would recommend?



I wonder if another forum on "Agriculture Equipment" would be of interest. It is not Dodge Cummins but there are a lot of Dodge Diesels on American farms.

 

[redneckdr]

hydraulic pump

when i replaced my hyd pump last year, i opted to upgrade to the pump with the solenoid operated pressure release during starting. easier than twisting the steering wheel back and forth.

 

[merryman]

Is this steering wheel twisting, done during or before cranking?



Vaughn

 

[illflem]

Jammar, these two outfits may have what you need.

http://www.detwilereq.com/rebhydpum2.html

http://www.waltstractors.com/ford97b.htm

 

[redneckdr]

twisting the steering wheel

vaughn, the movement of the steering wheel back and forth during cranking relieves the back pressure on the pump, so it turns easier, there fore, the starter can turn the engine faster, and not so much load on the starting motor. these tractors have hydraulic power steering powered by the main hydraulic pump.