2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Just installed secret start button

[Joe Mc]

In an effort to deter theft I installed a "push in momentary contact" button, which has to be held in when the ignition switch is turned to start.



Please don't mistake that I think this is a brain child of my own - I read about this type of device back when I joined the TDR in May of 01. I am simply posting this now because I stupid waited almost 5 years to do it



With an automatic it's fairly easy because the wire harness has a jumper where the standard trans "clutch in to start" safety connects. I placed the switch in a spot that isn't easily seen, and is a bit of a pain to get at (PM me if interested in location) so, I'm thinking of installing a push-on-push-off switch instead. This way when I get in in the am I push the switch "on" to close the circuit and at the end of the day (or if needed throughout the day) I push the switch "off" to open the circuit. This switch is only a "deterrent" not a fail proof anti-theft. PM for more info if you wish.



Best regards

 

[fox]

You let the secret out!!!

How can we tell other members without letting the bad guys know?

 

[GECCO]

How funny, I JUST posted something similar to this in the general forum! I was thinking about installing a hidden rocker switch in this circuit. If you put the switch in the edge of the seat somewhere it can be covered by the fabric and operated by feel and no one (who isn't supposed to) will ever know the difference.

 

[Joe Mc]

You let the secret out!!!

How can we tell other members without letting the bad guys know?

1-By not telling them where the switch is.



2-Bad guys go for the easy way, busting the column and doing the ignition switch.



If it won't start that way - they move on.

 

[DJAustin]

Joe,

Great idea- can you tell me how to locate the wire in the harness that would be used for the clutch switch? Mines a 95 (auto)

Thanks

DJA

 

[JasonCzerak]

This switch needs to interrupt the fuel pump circuit, not the clutch saftery or ignition wire in the column



Joe Mac has it right on.

 

[rweis]

Magnet reed switch.



Do you carry a magnet around? AND know where to put it?



No magnet, no switchie, no injector pump, no workie



Bob Weis

 

[JoshPeters]

This switch needs to interrupt the fuel pump circuit, not the clutch saftery or ignition wire in the column



Joe Mac has it right on.

Why interupt the fuel pump? Why don't you just interupt the START circut. No starter... . no run... . no go.



I think what Joe taped into is the Park/Neutral safety switch. If it's not in the proper location, lets say Reverse... . the engine won't start. With a clutch... . without the clutch depressed. It won't start.



Nice Job Joe!



Josh

 

[Joe Mc]

Keep in mind this idea I found out about on the TDR back in May of 01 is only a theft deterrent, don't entirely rely on just it. If they want it bad enough they'll get it regardless of what you have to "deter" them.



I like the idea of the magnet switch .



As far as interrupting the LP not bad, but how many of us ran around with failed LPs and didn't know about it until we checked/got gages? The wire I tapped is for the "clutch in" to start switch, not the neutral safety or the ignition switch in the column - although, with out looking at a wiring schematic I'm guessing they are all interlinked and basically interrupt the starter switch wiring.



Best regards.



Joe

 

[JasonCzerak]

Why interupt the fuel pump? Why don't you just interupt the START circut. No starter... . no run... . no go.



I think what Joe taped into is the Park/Neutral safety switch. If it's not in the proper location, lets say Reverse... . the engine won't start. With a clutch... . without the clutch depressed. It won't start.



Nice Job Joe!



Josh

You don't know very many repo men do you?



If it's in the easy plain view, it can be by passed. a good theif will know what he's breaking into. ignition and clutch wires are the first thigns to check before moving on I'm sure.



I would not modify (if for security purposes) anything under the dash. I would leave that as STOCK looking as possible.



Any wires should not go though any obvious firewall accesses to the engine capartment. If you already have 20 wires running for guages, then it's easy to hide and go with the "security though obsecurity" theory.



I like the idea of putting a switch with in the seat under the fabric. That's a neat idea! Something you can purposely "switch" _AS_ you enter the car/truck prior to starting. Making even your passengers un-aware of anything out of the ordinary. Or if your allone, just press it!



Switches on the floor near your feet are obvious as you can just pull back the carpet and look for them.



If your stock, the wires should run under the carpet, under your seat with your power seats wiring harness.



All this should disable something under the hood. fuel, ignition, starter, what ever you can to make the motor a no-go.



There are some aftermarket DSM ECUs (ricers) that are rather cool. You set a combination with your peddles. For example the ECU will not allow the starter to enguage unless you do this in the correct order:



brake, gas, gas, clutch, gas, brake.



At this point things are enabled. of course, if the theif really wants your ricer, he would have a junk yard ECU for the car and just swap it realy quick and your cars gone. .

 

[JoshPeters]

You don't know very many repo men do you?



If it's in the easy plain view, it can be by passed. a good theif will know what he's breaking into. ignition and clutch wires are the first thigns to check before moving on I'm sure.



I would not modify (if for security purposes) anything under the dash. I would leave that as STOCK looking as possible.



Any wires should not go though any obvious firewall accesses to the engine capartment. If you already have 20 wires running for guages, then it's easy to hide and go with the "security though obsecurity" theory.



I like the idea of putting a switch with in the seat under the fabric. That's a neat idea! Something you can purposely "switch" _AS_ you enter the car/truck prior to starting. Making even your passengers un-aware of anything out of the ordinary. Or if your allone, just press it!



Switches on the floor near your feet are obvious as you can just pull back the carpet and look for them.



If your stock, the wires should run under the carpet, under your seat with your power seats wiring harness.



All this should disable something under the hood. fuel, ignition, starter, what ever you can to make the motor a no-go.



There are some aftermarket DSM ECUs (ricers) that are rather cool. You set a combination with your peddles. For example the ECU will not allow the starter to enguage unless you do this in the correct order:



brake, gas, gas, clutch, gas, brake.



At this point things are enabled. of course, if the theif really wants your ricer, he would have a junk yard ECU for the car and just swap it realy quick and your cars gone. .

Again... . as was said earlier... .



If they really want it... they'll take it anyway.



Gee a 12v... . Pop the hood take a ZIP TIE and pull the start solonoid up. Take a screw driver and cross the 2 terminals at the starter... . Now it's running. Broken column... . Now you don't have the "locking" shifter or steering wheel.





Seriously, anyone that is around cars long enough knows there is ONE wire that is a common color amongst All the cars that I have run across that goes to the starter. Just add power and the starter turns over.



Swaping out ECM's and all that... . Really? I don' think 95% of the thefts out there are that sophisticated. This isn't gone in 60 seconds where they are jacking Benz's and BMW's. Heck even some hopped up Ricer.



We are talking the average theif.



And honestly... . if they don't know it's there..... it takes more time. And there in lies more time for the cops to show up or someone to see them.



It's a great idea! I'm contemplating something like that myself.



Josh

 

[JasonCzerak]

yes, that's the old trucks. short of taking the battery with ya and if it's a stick, a good push could get it started?



Yes, if they want it. it's gone. no matter what. this I do not disagree with one single bit.



But silly things are pointless to do. like a switch in the clutch circuit. If you can make is look factory and hide it. Then in theory, it should work for 95% of the theifs.



I personaly won't go that route.



Question. What about the fuel and or starter wires under the hood. Has anyone done this? I suppose I have the service manual on my laptop I could track these wires down.



Rerouting a 22g wire in stock wire harnesses shouldn't be hard. It's just getting a button switch in the seat that would be tricky and just plain cool.



And what about the guys that like to leave their truck running at short stops? I know a remote starter, and turbo timers have the ability to kill the engine if the break is presses when they are activated IF the key is not back in the ignition... . this is where things get tricky.



I personaly have a seperator between my key and remote access. so I can lock the truck with it running and get back in. This in mostly trusted areas (work, home, friend houses). This will keep the 16 year old from a joy ride. But a real theif can get the door open in 30 seconds if that and my truck is gone.

 

[JoshPeters]

Question. What about the fuel and or starter wires under the hood. Has anyone done this? I suppose I have the service manual on my laptop I could track these wires down.



.

STARTER WIRES... . That is what he's tied into. That's what we have been talking about all along. The CLUTCH circut or the P/N switch in an Auto are all tied into the same starter circut.



What are we trying to accomplish? Making a way the average theif can't start the truck. Not terribly complex. Lets keep it simple.



Regardless of where you tie into the wires... . by what your saying... . it won't matter. You may as well leave the keys in it... . they are gonna take it anyway. :-{}

 

[JasonCzerak]

STARTER WIRES... . That is what he's tied into. That's what we have been talking about all along. The CLUTCH circut or the P/N switch in an Auto are all tied into the same starter circut.



What are we trying to accomplish? Making a way the average theif can't start the truck. Not terribly complex. Lets keep it simple.



Regardless of where you tie into the wires... . by what your saying... . it won't matter. You may as well leave the keys in it... . they are gonna take it anyway. :-{}

If I see a splice in the cab of where the tapped wire is. then I can easly follow it.



Example. My dad thought that a kill switch on my mom's brand new 91 stang would be perfect for security. My brother got the keys and in a matter of 60 seconds tripped the one obvious wires and started it. he's not a theif at all. and was 16 and clueless back then.



My point here is to do the same thing we been talking about. But move everthing under the hood. Not under the dash.



I want the theif to break the dash and try to hot wire it there and find it won't work still. If the theif goes this route and sees you already played with the wires, he has clues to what to do.



Sorry for re-making points already made about the ignition switch and clutch switch. I should of been more to the point about "under the hood only" I suppose.



To be honest Josh, the honest theifs your talking about, just locking the door will keep them out. If your going to steal something new, something that has the keys with the chips in them (or no keys at all, Cadillac XLR for example), you need to be educated. The ones your talking about will steal your radio, not the car, unless it's a 15 year old car.



I have seen my jeep started and column unlocked with a slightly modified blank key. it's a 13 year old jeep now. But I'm sure I can modify some wires to make it very difficult since it's rather electronic to a degree.

 

[DJAustin]

Right on Josh,

Not looking to secure it like Fort Knox, just a simple switch that a thief of opportunity would not suspect. The average thief is not as smart as some seem to think. The clutch circuit is the way to go for me.

 

[master1578]

A question for all you wizards... .



I have the stereo controls on the back of the steering wheel. Due to the after market stereo these are no longer in use. How difficult would it be to wire one of these as a momentary contact button??



BTW, thanks for the PM Joe.

 

[JasonCzerak]

if I'm not mistaken all 3rd gen trucks have the chip in the key? If this is the case then a kill switch prolly isn't needed.



I gave a call a few of my reposession officer friends and asked them about what you do when you come across a car with one. Typicaly, they will just tow it now matter what since they use tow trucks



But from a theif point of view They wouldn't not even try However it is possible to get around this sytem. It just takes some expensive equipment and some time. A theif would have a tow truck remove the vehical from the area and then crack the key chip deal.



But, some how remote starters bypass this system without any sort of "chips" right??? So I'm back to square one until I'm more informed on how exactly a remote starter system interacts with a 3rd gen

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Not all 3rd gen's have the sentry key(chip in key). It is still an option, at least on the early ones. Might be standard now. Mine doesn't have it and there are several posts I've read about others adding it after the fact. It is relatively easy to add on the 3rd gens from what I've gathered.

 

[Patriot Blue Megacab]

I like it,I like it,no matter where its at,or what its hooked into as long as its hidden,I work out of country and have an 06 2500 Megacab. Your all right your not going to stop a pro who wants your truck,its sad to say but im more worried about some of my own family getting the keys out of my house and driveing my truck around while im gone.

 

[DJAustin]

Radio buttons

Not an electrician here, but make sure your radio control switch can carry the load (amps) of whatever circuit you tap into. Probally won't take the start circuit amps but perhaps the fuel solenoid- Or wire it in via a relay. A great idea and with a little oms law help could be made to work safely.