Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) KDP damage!

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Well, the KDP has struck on our new truck(98) It probably did it before we bought it, but it didn't leak a whole lot of oil. Couldn't tell it from the dipstick. I even looked all over the front housing before we bought it and could not find any cracks, but it was in the one place you can't look or feel for it.



I found the crack under the fan mount when I took it off. Its not a really huge crack, it is not pushed out or anything, just a crack. The dowel pin fell out from the bottom of the case when I took the cover off. It is a little eat up, but the gears look alright.

I haven't done much in the housing, but the one bolt I did check above the cam gear was very loose .



I am getting ready to order all the parts, Cummins Atlantic wants 222. 69 for the housing.



It is a very good thing I am off all week from college, I think I may need it.



Steven

 

[WBusa]

Sorry to hear that, Carolina... I know you were worrying about this when you were thinking about buying. Still, the good news is the damage is minor, and you get to do some rooting around in your engine compartment this week, which is always fun. Look at it this way: the truck cost you $200 more than you thought it would.

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Yeah, the only part I'm really worried about is pulling the cam. The rest oughta be kinda fun?! and educational, I'll have some real good stories when I get back to college next week.



Steven

 

[WBusa]

You are going to replace the KDP (and tab it), right? Consensus around here is it has a role in life (other than falling out and cracking cases).

 

[Joe G.]

The new gear case has a ridge just above the dowell pin so it can't fall out. No need to tab it. The dowell pin has to be there to exactly locate the gear case.

 

[HCanales]

Here is some good info for you Steve that might help, if you didn't already

know : http://www.flex.net/~triplem/new/dowelpin.htm

hope this helps HCanales

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

yep, I'm gonna replace the KDP. I already ordered it and the other parts I needed.



Thanks HCanales





Thanks, Steven

 

[HCanales]

Oh yea... For the wooden dows, that you use to lift the tappets from the cam

don't pick a soft wood because it can break off inside but don't select to

hard of a wood(oak or any hard wood) because you'll have a hell of a time

seating the dow inside the tappet.

HCanales

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Thanks,



The inj. pump does not need to be totally removed does it? Only the gear and the four nuts right??



Does the inj. pump have a gasket, I can't seem to find one on Quickserve online?



Steven

 

[HCanales]

Correct on the inj. pump, make sure before you remove the gear from the

shaft you mark it to indicate where the timing goes, thats very important.

Does it have a gasket??? I do belive it has an O-ring and it all comes in the

kit. I got my kit through Cummins Northwest with everything in two days

for $309, just something to consider.

HCanales

 

[ABorchard]

Most Cummins shops no longer remove the cam when replacing the case, cuts about $600 off the bill, you don't have to take the front end all apart. First turn the engine till the line up marks on the gears are lined up. A high quality three prong puller (Snap On is best) is used to remove the gear off the cam but there is also a special Cummins puller made just for it that works way better. The gear goes back on by heating it and sliding it on to the cam.



The gear can be heated in two ways, 1) Toaster oven, next to the truck so the gear does not cool down: 2) Propane space heater, one that can have the elements turn up like a grill. Set the temp around 300 F. The oven is the easiest way, depending on the oven it could take 30-45 minutes to heat up, in the meantime you can clean some parts. The propane heater is faster about 10-15 minutes but you need to be fast because the gear will cool down faster and get stuck half way.



You need an extra hand for a few minutes to hold the cam from moving back and pushing out the rear cam plug. The cam is held by removing the fuel lift/transfer pump (don't drop the pump actuator arm into the crankcase!) and using a pry bar on the cam lobe, apply a little force to move the cam toward the front of the engine. The cam can move slightly but all you want is the cam not to move back when the gear is going back on. Once the gear is up to the temp, the crank and cam timing position has been set, someone is holding the cam from sliding back, you then grab the gear with high temp welding gloves and slide the gear back on, sometimes might have to tap it back with a plastic mallet or dead blow hammer but never with a steel hammer.



I would only recommend this to someone with experience. Sounds a little complicated but is way easier. There are three draw backs: 1) gear cooling down half way, then you have to wait 10 minutes to cool and remove it again to start all over; 2) Not aligning the crank and cam; 3) Allowing the cam to move back and pushing out the rear cam plug, then you will have to pull the engine.



Some people think this method causes a weaker fit for the gear but Cummins has been using this method exclusively for several years, I've never heard of a problem.

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Thanks,



I rotated the engine until the marks on the crank and cam gears were lined up. I then marked the pump gear and cam gear where they lined up.



When the rocker assembly goes back on, how exactly do you retorque the head bolts? The manual says you have to. I'm guessing I'd just have to loosen and retorque +90* one bolt at a time



HCanales- exactly what kit are you talking about??





Steven

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and buy 1/2" dowel pins 3' long, cut them around 11. 5" for the rear 4 positions, others can be longer and it is easier to deal with them. If you try heating the gear, you will probably crack one of the 3 webs between the gear part and the hub. 300 deg. isn't near enough to expand it enough to slide on, and if it sticks for any reason, you are screwed and have to try again. I use a belt sander to grind a chamfer on the end of the dowel and cut a slot with a hacksaw about 1/2" or so deep so the wood is more springy.

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Thanks,



I'll try it tomorrow and see how it goes.



Steven

 

[JGK]

When I replaced my gear case last spring, we pulled the cam (replaced it with a PDR upgrade). Piers was pretty specific about what temperature to heat it to in order to avoid cracking it. But once up to temp, I was able to walk it from the kitchen to the garage and slide it right on the end of the cam, which a friend was holding and was read for me. It dropped on with a nice clear ring tone. We did put the cam in the freezer for an hour to shrink it a bit, too.



I like the idea of not having to pull the cam, but as Joe said, get it right the first time or you'll be doing it over.



As for lining things up before pulling the pump loose, there are timing marks on the edge of the cam gear (I think) and pump gear. Little dots machined into the metal. 2 on one gear, 1 on the other. Center the 1 between the 2. Plan on retiming it when you put it all back together.



If you do pull the rocker arms, just retorque the bolts on each to spec when reinstalling. Might check them later after its run a while. I've never had any problem with mine.



-Jay

 

[HCanales]

Thanks,



I rotated the engine until the marks on the crank and cam gears were lined up. I then marked the pump gear and cam gear where they lined up.



When the rocker assembly goes back on, how exactly do you retorque the head bolts? The manual says you have to. I'm guessing I'd just have to loosen and retorque +90* one bolt at a time



HCanales- exactly what kit are you talking about??





Steven

These guy from cummins northwest put together all the needed parts you

need for the KDP (genuine cummins parts) project. Give them a call

1-800-937-0336 and ask for Mike, I thought it was a pretty good deal.

Hope this work for you. HCanales

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Thanks guys,



The service manual says to retorque ALL the head bolts if any "pedestals" were removed, I'm guessing a pedestal is the rocker assembly. Is this really necessary?? If I have to, should I loosen one, torque then turn +90* then do the next one or should I just check the torque.



Steven

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

I got my new case today, and it has the stepped hole. When I put the dowel pin in, it goes in before the case right?? It also has a longer chamfer on one end from the other, which end goes where??



I will post all my parts numbers for everything I used when I get done for anybody that may need them.



Steven

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Well, I got the cam out and the housing off last night about 8:00. I was waiting on a few seals and gaskets today so the only thing I could do was clean parts.



I got the injection pump to gear housing o-ring, part number 3969698. I haven't took the old one off yet, but it looks different. The old one is black and looks kinda square cut, may just be the set of it from being in there so long, but the new one is round, looks to be the correct diameter; invoice even says "seal, rectangular ring" same part# though. I just want to know if it is the correct one or not? Can anybody tell me.



If it is; good, if not I'll have to reuse the old one cause I can't wait on parts anymore. Old one looks OK.



Steven

 

[Andy Redmond]

Steven:



Sounds like you have the right o-ring/gasket, lightly lube it with engine oil and the housing will slide right over.



Did you get a new housing to block gasket? If not you might be able to seal the housing to the block with Black RTV, after everything is cleaned well. You can end up with a good oil leak, if care isn't taken here. Yep, you guessed it, you'll have to remove everything, should the gasket need more r&r.



I usually just retorq the rocker towers, starting the in center and work my way out towards either end.



If Dad wasn't so busy (Statesville), I'd send him over to re-assure your doing it correctly. He'd just bug ya anyhow!



Have fun, let us know how it turns out.