Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) KDP damage

[eberga]

The dreaded KDP has struck again!!! I have been putting off killing it and I guess I waited too long I got sort of lucky I guess there was no damage to the gear train or cam just a busted gear case. Does anyone have a step by step set of instructions to replace the gear case? I have already removed the front cover and I found the dowel pin and the broken case. I guess next comes the bumper, radiator, intercooler etc. New case is on the way from Cummins. The price was fairly reasonable about $100 for a new case. I was expecting at least $300. Anyone who has been thinking about killing the KDP do it ASAP!!!

 

[Deezul1]

I understand the cam has to come out to change the case. There is a possibility that the gear can be removed to keep from pulling the cam but not sure on that.

 

[JWaters]

cam

Yes the cam has to come out, you need 12 wooden sticks to hold up the lifters and some rubber bands. I have done this many times and it is the easiest way. You have to remove the injector pump, power steering pump... . everything bolted to the case. You should go ahead and replace the water pump while you are in there to. :{

 

[illflem]

Cummins shops don't remove the cam but rather the gear to replace the case. This is done with a puller designed for the gear, I'm sure you get another type of puller to work. When replacing the gear it must be heated to about 300° prior to pushing it back on. You must also remove the lift pump and hold the cam with a bar in order to keep from pushing the rear cam bushing out the back of the engine.

Since Cummins started doing this way the cost for case replacement has dropped below $1000 due to not having to take the front end apart and messing with the lifters.

 

[A Johnson]

I dont have a picture, but there are basically two types of pullers that work. Probably the easiest to find would be a three jaw setup that locks the Jaws outward towards the outer radius of the gear. We used this setup for years. The one we use now has three jaws that lock on the side of the cam gear cutouts, as you twist the puller screw the entire puller twists and the jaws just kind of cam over and lock on the sides of the three gear cut outs. This second puller is one that one of our mechanics made up, so I don't know where you would buy/rent it.



A Johnson



edit: I'm sure Cummins tools sells a special puller for the B but I haven't used it, and can't describe it.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Here are some pictures from TDR member Strick-9:



http://www.flex.net/~triplem/new/dowelpin.htm

 

[JWaters]

cummins

Yea we have the 500. 00 gear puller, but guess what you still have to slide the cam out to the first lobe, which means you still have to remove the lift pump and you still have to hold the lifters up with the wooden sticks. So if you still have to remove all of this why not go ahead and pull the cam, the sticks are already there. If you dont believe me ask another cummins shop for the instructions, Our 500. 00 gear puller is sitting on the shelf because we perfer to just go ahead and remove the cam since it is already part of the way out. :-{}

 

[Joe G.]

I don't think Pablo Madrid needs to use sticks or anything like that. Search the archives for his post that tells how to do it with a puller.

 

[JWaters]

sticks

call a Cummins shop and ask them how they hold up the lifters? We have 230 5. 9 and 8. 3 cummins and believe me we know how to fix these engines!!!

 

[Joe G.]

Opps! I made the post with Pablo's instructions before he became a member of these forums. It's at: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34069&highlight=cam+puller

 

[JWaters]

cam

I have the Cummins Gear puller kit, and you still have to use the wooden rods to hold up the lifters. I am always open for help but so far as of last week Cummins still require you to move the cam out about 2 inchs to attach the rest of the gear puller kit to the gear, then you have to use the wooden rods to hold up the lifters. If there is a easy and safer way I am up for it, but cummins doesn't have one yet.

 

[Joe G.]

PM Pablo (user name P Madrid) and ask him. I don't think he moves the cam enough to require the lifters to be held up.

 

[illflem]

When I talked with my friend who wrenches for Cummins NW about it while back he positively said that pulling the gear eliminated doweling the lifters. In fact he said it in the context that it was the part that made case replacement easier the most. Next time I see him I'll ask to be sure. Also tdr member wdaniels did the fix this way and didn't say anything about the lifters.

 

[JWaters]

?

Well please let me know as we wasted 500 on the cummins tool to remove the gear. If there is truely away and a tool to do it with I want it. The cummins tool required that you pull the cam out about 2 inhes so you could install the part that holds the cam inplace behind the gear. It was really suppose to be a tool to replace a cam gear and not a case. :{

 

[Joe G.]

In one e-mail from Pablo discussing this problem he said:



"Here is the place we get the pullers from:



Shel's Equipment and Supplies

New Haven, Connecticut

(203) 934-8544



The puller will work on B5. 9s and ISBs. No one seems to remember what we paid. "

 

[JWaters]

A

Oh ok , you see my puller came from Cummins South in Atlanta Ga, this is the only thing they have!

 

[illflem]

WJ, I wonder if the puller part you mention to hold the cam in place is causing the extra work? Maybe it's intended to keep from popping out the rear cam plug while pounding the gear back on. Others are getting around this with a bar on the cam though the removed lift pump hole. It takes two people for the pounding the gear back on part of the operation, one holding the bar and one pounding.



My Cummins NW buddy said they remove the radiator to make room for the puller, I assumed they were using the posi-lock type below through the holes in the gear since he said three jaw. He also said it sounds like a shotgun when the gear pops off.



#ad

 

[A Johnson]

The puller Jwaters is refering to causes the extra work because it won't fit behind the gear without pulling the cam out.

Illflem , the picture you showed will work if you can reverse the jaws to hook on the outermost part of the cam cutouts, at least that is the way our old style puller was used.



I will try to get a picture from work and figure out how to post it of our custom built puller. It is a pretty simple machine job to build, and with a little inginuity you probably wouldn't need a lathe.



Since I started using an air hammer to put the gear back on, I don't even pull the lift pumps any more to hold the camshaft, and really no more problems fighting the gear back on.



A Johnson



edit: I read PMadrids instructions and he says to never use a steel hammer, technically he is right, I will leave this up to the individual. Also I use a can of the stuff that freezes bubblegum for cleanup, to cool the nose of the camshaft before I slide the gear on, not sure if it helps much, but it makes me feel better.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I recently saw a cam gear that had been pulled, then heated and replaced. Two of the three webs holding the outside to the hub were cracked through. I have also heated gears to 330 deg (Cummins max is 350), and they don't slide on very well at all. I still whacked the hub with a hammer and heavy plate across the cam hole in order to install. I suspect you would have tyo heat it to 400+ deg. to slide it on, and that could detemper the metal and cause the above noted cracking.



I recommend pulling the cam/gear as a unit. After all, it's YOUR truck, not a customer's.

 

[Extreme1]

Besides, if you remove the cam, it's all that much easier for a different one to find it's way in there.