Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) KDP using a scope

[savage54]

Has anyone used a bore scope to look to see if the dowel pin is fix or not. I have a 97 ,from my dad and have know clue if he fixed it. If I take off the filler to , is their room for a scope?

 

[Wayne M.]

That's a great idea. To put some perspective, back when there were KDP parties- groups of guys gettin er done, and was a rage, these borescopes and little cameras were not available at Herbor Freight. Yet.*

 

[BigPapa]

You could try, but I don't think you'll have room between the gear and the cover. There may not even be enough room to get it by the nut and cover.

 

[savage54]

Well I had just enough room to get the scope by the gear, to see if the 97 dodge was tabbed or pined. It did take me a few tries to find it. Here is the pic, not great but you can see the pin and it's not pinned or tabbed, so I see my self tearing into it.

 

[DonFitzwater]

It's too easy of a job to not just do it. And you'll have a new crank seal and timing cover gasket. I usually like to install a new fluidampr while I'm at it.

 

[savage54]

It's too easy of a job to not just do it. And you'll have a new crank seal and timing cover gasket. I usually like to install a new fluidampr while I'm at it.

Ya your right, I just was not sure if my dad did it before he passed 11 years ago,I would hate to tear it apart and find out he had it done, just got the truck in 2016. Trying to find out what needs to be done and what doesn't.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I understand where you are coming from but look at it this way; There are more important things to look at inside that timing cover than the kdp, in my opinion. Nearly every truck I've done has had loose timing cover bolts. I'm not talking about the outer stamped steel cover bolts. I'm talking about the bolts that hold the timing cover to the block. I had a 98 that developed an oil leak and while checking the kdp I found several of the bolts inside loose and luckily after tightening them (removed one at a time and applied red loctite) the oil leak nearly disappeared.

Imagine if one of those bolts fell into the works!

 

[phantomusa]

There use to be a kit available to drill and tap the side of the gear case and install a locking bolt to stop that dowel pin from coming out
I did that with my old 95 3500 years ago

 

[HHhuntitall]

I understand where you are coming from but look at it this way; There are more important things to look at inside that timing cover than the kdp, in my opinion. Nearly every truck I've done has had loose timing cover bolts. I'm not talking about the outer stamped steel cover bolts. I'm talking about the bolts that hold the timing cover to the block. I had a 98 that developed an oil leak and while checking the kdp I found several of the bolts inside loose and luckily after tightening them (removed one at a time and applied red loctite) the oil leak nearly disappeared.

Imagine if one of those bolts fell into the works!

I'll have to look around, but somewhere I used to have a sheared camshaft head in a gear. Those little bolts are harder than the dowel pin, and don't shoot out as easily when a gear grabs them..... Broke the camshaft between the gear and bearing, and again behind the bearing and first lobe. Turned the bearing in the block a little, too. Even chipped the pump gear. Yea, those bolts are not friendly to moving parts....

 

[BigPapa]

Something like this?

 

[GAmes]

There use to be a kit available to drill and tap the side of the gear case and install a locking bolt to stop that dowel pin from coming out

Yup, that was before it was discovered the gear case bolts are just as likely to come loose.

 

[phantomusa]

Yup, that was before it was discovered the gear case bolts are just as likely to come loose.

After my kdp fix I ran more then 400000 more miles and never had any trouble with gear case bolts ????? Maybe I got lucky but I haven't seen that problem with other Cummins around my area

 

[HHhuntitall]

Something like this?

View attachment 98430

HA! Yes, very similar, except the bearing journal is separate from the cam and gear head.... Mean little boogers....

After my kdp fix I ran more then 400000 more miles and never had any trouble with gear case bolts ????? Maybe I got lucky but I haven't seen that problem with other Cummins around my area

I've seen a hundred of them. The bolts don't always fall out. I've also opened up a lot of them and found bolts missing in several places. Also, as mentioned, they're the cause of many leaks. Red Loctite, a little brake parts cleaner, and it's a quick and easy fix. The PITA is the pulling everything else of to get to it!!

 

[GAmes]

After my kdp fix I ran more then 400000 more miles and never had any trouble with gear case bolts ????? Maybe I got lucky but I haven't seen that problem with other Cummins around my area

The odds of the kdp falling out are about zero, the case bolts coming out are probably about the same. However, when either one falls out the damage could be significant. Why chance it when removing the front cover for the inspection is so easy?

 

[HHhuntitall]

The odds of the kdp falling out are about zero, the case bolts coming out are probably about the same. However, when either one falls out the damage could be significant. Why chance it when removing the front cover for the inspection is so easy?

All due respect, but I'll respectfully disagree on your likelihood of the pin and bolts falling out. Every p pumped 12 valve that hasn't been previously repaired, that I've pulled apart, has had a dowel pin partially falling out or missing, and loose or missing bolts. I've done dozens of gear case replacements, and hate it. There are half a dozen or so in my scrap pile as of this writing (waiting on aluminum prices to come up). I've also seen quite a few older VE pumped trucks that had the pin walking out. It's not something to take lightly. It's only a matter of time before it will eventually happen. Now, it might drop straight to the oil drain and go to the pan without damage or noise. Broken cam shafts are the extreme end of the spectrum, but certainly possible. It's something to keep in consideration when buying an older used truck. I've bought several to part out that had the busted gear drive, and because Dodge wants so much to repair them, I got them very cheap. And gahhlee do they leak a lot of oil!! :-laf

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

My findings agree with HH.