Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Kdp

[JMichelson]

Over the past few weeks I helped a couple of friends tab the KDP’s on their trucks. The first one was a 98 12 valve, the second was a 98 24 valve. On both trucks we used the kit and directions from TST. The directions are very straightforward and easy to understand. Took about four hours on each truck. Time well spent in my opinion. Here’s a couple of things I learned. On the 24 valve, drain the radiator down a little and remove the upper hose. Makes getting the fan shroud out a whole lot easier. You don’t have to take the windshield washer bottle out, just unhook it from the shroud and tie it out of the way. We used a gasket on the cover of the 12 valve. They don’t make a gasket for the 24 valve, so you have to use gasket sealer. I made four guide studs to line up the cover so I didn’t mess up the sealer when installing the cover. The 12 valve was a auto. You need to pull the cover of the flywheel and hold it to get the damper bolts loose. The 24 valve was a manual, just put it in gear with the parking brake set. Here’s what we found. Neither pin had moved, no surprise there. The real eye opener after you get the cover off, was the ability to see the amount of carnage the pin would cause if it did come out. A picture doesn't do it justice. It is a project well worth the time and effort to do. I think both owners slept a little better knowing that their KDP weren’t going anywhere.

 

[JFlagg]

Just out of curiousity, after seeing it mentioned alot on here, what is the KDP?

 

[EKlem]

The KDP is the killer dowel pin. It is an alignment pin for you timing gear case. In the 12 valve trucks and some of the earlier 24 valve trucks, the only thing keeping it from falling down into your timing gears is friction. Some of them do fall out and it is a very time consuming fix but it is also easily prevented with either the tab kit from tst or the jig method. The 2002 in your sig should not suffer from this problem because it has a different case.

 

[CumminsPower98]

I have done this on four Dodges and one freightshaker chassis bus and all but one had moved slightly assuming the pins were bottomed out at the factory. I make my own tabs. From what I have read the problem seems to be hit and miss even on the newer 24 valve trucks. Do a search in the 24 valve engine forums. I'm pretty sure I saw a thread where someone tabbed an '02 because it didn't have the updated gear case (or maybe it failed, not sure now).

Below are pictures for those who are unfamiliar with the problem.

The first picture is a tab job I did for another member not long ago. The other picture shows what happens if the pin falls out. I do not know who's picture this is.

Edit: I now see the damage picture came from the truck linked in the next post. I saved it along with several others from a TDR posting a long time ago.

 

[Joe G.]

Just in case people think that little crack is easy to fix here is the article about how to fix a failure: http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/read.php?id=111

 

[CochranD]

all costs should have been covered by chrysler ??

I dont know if the question was ever asked on here or not , but why wasnt the KDP ever recalled for repairs by Dodge\Cummins ? I mean the throtle linkage, and backup hood latch was... ?? This sounds like a class action suite, where the lawers end up with all the cash when its over . There had to be a few cases broken during the warrenty period. Would that info be available to the dealer ?#@$%! #@$%! #@$%!

 

[Flinty]

unfortunately, most of the dowel pins held on to beyond the warranty. Those that didn't were warranted. Technically, they (D. C. ) held up their end of the bargain. It doesn't seem fair but then the only option is to get a lawyer and start shelling out some frogskins. I did mine @ 133k and it was halfway out.

 

[Joe G.]

It's not Cummins problem because Dodge buys the engines with no warrantee from Cummins. Dodge has just ducked the issue by fixing only those that failed durring the 100K warrantee.

 

[J Shocik]

The jig method

The other method of preventing the KDP from attacking you is the jig method. I noticed it's not discussed here too much, & I think that's a shame. Some think it's an inferior method of preventative maintenance. I think it's a cost & time effective method of neutering the KDP. JefMic says it took about 4 hrs on each truck. I did mine in less than half the time using the jig, & it cost me only the S & H $$ to get it to the next member. I think this is the easier way, after all, isn't saving time, labor, & money one of the things the TDR is all about??



For those not familiar with the jig, it's a kit you borrow from one of the "keepers" of the kit. A small hole is drilled in the side of the cover mentioned, tapped for threads, & a small, tapered-headed allen head machine bolt is installed, blocking the dowel pin from coming out.

 

[Joe G.]

I think it's a cost & time effective method of neutering the KDP. JefMic says it took about 4 hrs on each truck. I did mine in less than half the time using the jig

I don't think time is really an issue here. What is a couple of hours more to do that job right to protect a $6,000 or more engine?

 

[CumminsPower98]

I personally much rather pull the cover. There are case bolts in there that can also come loose, fall out and cause damage (rare but I have read of it here at least once). Many times these bolts are not up to torque spec. I just recently pulled my cover again to tighten two case bolts behind the cam gear to stop a leak. When I did my KDP years ago I didn't know about those hiding bolts and over time the case began to leak back there (probably mistaken for vacuum pump gasket a few times). The first time around it needed a crank seal anyway and most times that is the case so doing it this way presents an opportunity to fix multiple problems at once. I will be doing another this week. I pull all case bolts I can get at in there, clean the threads inside and out and loctite them.

 

[J Shocik]

IMO, the sad part is having to do something about the KDP in the first case, this on a $6000 motor. Chrysler's response is "Too Bad, we're not covering it". Cummins is also fully aware of this, yet they do nothing also. One of these 2 should step up & tab the pin in place at no charge to the customer. I'm remembering this as I shop for a new truck... it WON'T be a Dodge!

 

[tp0d]

I'm remembering this as I shop for a new truck... it WON'T be a Dodge!

As you shop for that new 'perfect' truck, remember that the beancounters sign off on every engineering success or failure. They alone control what gets produced, and in the end, its all about the almighty $.



blah. i`ll keep my 12v until the EPA pries it from my cold, sooty fingers.



-j

 

[DJb]

I'm not a fan of the jig tool either and pulled mine apart to fix and while there, inspected the gears and made sure everything was tight. Did find one cap screw that was not real tight but it wasn't completely loose either. I also don't care for the shavings that the drill and tap produce and any falling into the engine. I know it's a small amount but that small amount can do damage and why take that chance. And my KDP was all the way in... . and I love my Cummins. Not a big fan of the newer electronically controled trucks but the Cummins is imo, the best diesel engine out there. Just wish I could find another 94-97 new truck lol

 

[J Shocik]

From tpOd:

As you shop for that new 'perfect' truck, remember that the beancounters sign off on every engineering success or failure. They alone control what gets produced, and in the end, its all about the almighty $.

I just want someone who will stand behind their $40K truck when, and I say when, something goes wrong with it. After reading some posts on the '06's it appears D/C wants nothing to do with you after they get your hard earned $$. Water-in-fuel sensors that don't work properly,allowing water to get into the combustion chamber, ruining the new motor to the tune of $21K, paint falling off after all of 10K miles. And to top it all off, when you go to the dealer to get it repaired, they tell you "It's not our fault, sorry"



I'm not knocking the Cummins motor, after all I got one & it's running good. I AM knocking D/C & their warranty claims dept. The KDP is the perfect example of no one wanting to take responsibility for an obvious engineering blunder on someone's part.