kelderman ride questions

[Philip]

I know some members have these. MMiller is the only one I can remember right now.



So my questions are.



What is your air bag number and brand? Is it a single bag or a double convoluted?



What is total travel of your setup. Mine is set for 4" max travel. Do you have problems with it bottoming out? My setup has a Goodyear 1R12-095 bag and the system shows signs of bottoming out. This bag spec's shows min hight of 4", max working is 12". So with only 4" max travel this bag might not be doing the job properly.



Here are some pic's.

 

[Don Tanklage]

So with only 4" max travel this bag might not be doing the job properly.

i would say not...



but what can you do?

 

[Philip]

I know MMillers truck has a double convolted bag in it. But I don't know how much travel his is set for from kelderman. I didn't pay that much attention a couple of years ago when I was under his truck looking.



I have been thinking about doing away with those limit straps and using a set of nylon straps like the off road crowd use. I can get them in any length. This would allow the taller bag to work better.



I am going to replace the bag no matter what. So which one I get doesn't matter at this point. I just think 4" of travel in this air system is not enough.

 

[1stgen4evr]

I no longer have bags on my old faithful. Through a faulty decision, I removed them a couple of years back at the time of a full overhaul on the rear axle. I had planned to re re modify them and put them back on but - - - -



Originally they were built into that rube mechanism which fitted to the ends of the springs. Caused a lot of problems with u-joints as we loaded them quite heavy. They were mover to a location over the spring group (put the original hangers back on) at each side and this limited the travel somewhat. I had planned to remake the brackets (which were homemade) to improve the allowable travel. In fact, due to the soft nature of an air bag action, I believe they could be inboard some and mount to the tube as near as possible to the springs. I have a fabed cross menber that carries the goose neck ball that would work for the upper mount. I ran the (double convolute) original bags about 300k miles. One was touching the frame and it rubbed a hole. I bought new bags and that was another reason I removed them, thinking I would remount them and at least stop the contact with the frame.



If I could wiggle my nose and have them where I preferred, the frame would be narrower and they could mount to the tubes outside the frame. If I EVER get the crew done, that is what I plan.



James

 

[Don Tanklage]

I just think 4" of travel in this air system is not enough.

it isnt - cant be



i know you paid good money for that system and i feel for you



like so many aftermarket parts it sounds like you are going to have to re do it yourself if you want it to work right



don

 

[Philip]

Don I didn't buy it new. It is a used system. I just had it sand blasted then threw 3 coats of Imron on it.



I would have built my own system but I got this one as cheap as I could build one from scratch.



It doesn't bother me to much to mod it. I have modded many items to my liking over the decades.

 

[TWorline]

I just think 4" of travel in this air system is not enough.

Philip:

It may be enough according to how much pressure you run and how much pressure/volume you have available. I run a GVM Rowcat sprayer with a 1300 gal. tank with around 4" total travel, very seldom bottoms out in the field.

 

[PToombs]

After looking at the unit, I dont think it can move much farther. If it travels too far you are changing the angle of the bag mounts. You don't know how much air the PO had in it. Maybe he had a leak in a line and it ran empty, causing the marks. The springs themselves are going to carry weight too.

I think you ought to relax, wait 4 weeks, and look at MM's truck. I'm sure you will get lots of unsolicited advice too! :-laf

 

[MMiller]

I know MMillers truck has a double convolted bag in it. But I don't know how much travel his is set for from kelderman. I didn't pay that much attention a couple of years ago when I was under his truck looking.



I have been thinking about doing away with those limit straps and using a set of nylon straps like the off road crowd use. I can get them in any length. This would allow the taller bag to work better.



I am going to replace the bag no matter what. So which one I get doesn't matter at this point. I just think 4" of travel in this air system is not enough.

You're missing some rubber bumpers. The air system is desiged to work best on any empty truck, or near empty. Then when its loaded the air bag collapses and the factory suspension works. Empty, I just put enough air in the bag, to bring the bar to the lower stop. This gives the most travel, and prevents jacking of the rear on hard launches. When hooked to my trailer, I can pump up the air back all I want, but if the load is heavy enough compress the springs, then they just flex as the air bag is blown up. That air bag looks different then mine. I know mine is original just as it was installed by Kelderman in Oskaloosa Iowa. I also have thier kit on the back of my F650 service truck, and it has greatly improved the ride. 4" of travel is enough to greatly improve the ride. If you hit a bump that needs 4" of travel, I don't care what, you're going to feel it.



This doesn't help much does it Philip?:-laf



EDIT, looky here for pics... ... . https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/displayalbum.php?&userid=9239&albumid=1362

 

[Philip]

I know this bag is different. But I don't know if it is orginal. I am thinking it has been changed. The good year spec's call for 4" minium hight installed. This system doesn't go over 4" max travel. Minium installed right now is around 1. 5" all the way down. With bumpstops it might go 2" installed or so.



If you happen to think about it get me the number off the bag in your truck.



I'll call kelderman and see about the bump stops. I'll try to get a bag number also. But the way most companys work they won't use the goodyear or firestone numbers.



I hope this will clear that new 4" tailpipe.



Thanks for explaining that for loaded use you let it stay on those missing bump stops. I didn't notice them when I was under your truck. So these basicly work like the old velvet ride shackles did under load it is in a locked up not used state.

 

[MMiller]

Thanks for explaining that for loaded use you let it stay on those missing bump stops. I didn't notice them when I was under your truck. So these basicly work like the old velvet ride shackles did under load it is in a locked up not used state.

Yes, pretty much. You're still using the springs to hold up the truck. The air bag gives you cushion when empty, when you really need it, then when the load is heavy enough the springs start to flatten, then all the air pressure inthe world will just flex the springs instead of lifting the truck. Like anything else, you will play with pressures alot to get the best ride.



If you wait a few more weeks, you will be able to look at mine again... ...



Michael

 

[Philip]

I won't have it in before SOP. Right now I am trying to gather all the other parts I need before I install the front axle. You know all those small parts. New 2" skyjacker springs, another steering box to replace the leaker I have on it and so on.



Then I'll start gathering parts for the air ride install. Onboard air, new rear springs, I'll do a new drive shaft at the same time. Mine is getting real loose in the slip yoke.

 

["Mad Max"]

I think you ought to relax, wait 4 weeks, and look at MM's truck. I'm sure you will get lots of unsolicited advice too! :-laf

PT, are you referring to my RC? If so, I'd have to agree - if it survives the trip to Moab then I'll have proven that air bags on heavy full size rigs can work off road. One big difference tho, is my system uses 2000lb rated bags that are designed to articulate a LOT - 14" total travel, and they are narrow and tall - not enough capacity for a diesel. The diesel will have fatter and shorter bags, but not as large as the one pic'd above, more intended for weight and ride quality verses articulation.

I have also been pondering all manner of suspension designs, and I'm pretty certain the front will be a similar 4-link as the RC, but the rear will be totally different - maybe a 2-link or even a non-parallel 4-link. I'll hopefully be fabbing the suspension over the winter.



- M2

 

[dpuckett]

What would be wrong with fabbing up a setup like is on most semis? No springs in the proper sense, but something for the airbags and axle to bolt to. They hold plenty of weight, and ride quite well empty and loaded (unless one puts a fertilizer spreader on the air suspension, then it gets western in a hurry).



DP

 

[DValentine]

Sam, when you get going on your project please post pictures. I have been pondering the same ideas. I went into a shop that sold air bags for bigger trucks and tried to get some information on bag capacities... . the guy wouldn't tell me... wanted me to come in with a truck model and numbers. Oh well. DP, I too have looked at truck rear suspentions... . they seem simple enough... . most seem to use 1/2 a leaf spring to locate the axle and bags suspended in back of and below the centerline of the rear axle. I just don't know if I would need a panhard bar or what to locate the axle.



Philip--- sorry,not trying to jack the thread.



Dave

 

[Don Tanklage]

the right way to do it is with 4-link and a cross bar and it costs a lot of $$$ to do it right (good material, good rod ends, and good workmanship)



if it isnt done right you mighta just found a quick way to make yourself dead

 

[PToombs]

Sam, I meant MMillers truck. An RC on air though, niiiicccceee!



Philip, Michael explained what I was geting at in a roundabout way. The springs still do most of the work.



I thought the Kelderman was a full air ride like the big rigs. I didn't know it was like that til I saw the pics.

 

["Mad Max"]

Fellas, not sure if you've seen my RC project, but it is a full air bag'd truck, front 4-link, rear 3-link, all custom fab'd. Pages 11-13 go over a lot of the suspension, here's the link -

Dodge Ramcharger Central - Cummins Diesel - Ram Truck - Power Wagon - Trail Duster - 4X4 - Plymouth - Chrysler - Mopar

It drove around the block for the first time two weeks ago - it rides like a hovercraft :-laf

Anyway, might glean some ideas - any q's please ask away. My diesel will be similar but different - much more aimed at weight capacity and less off-road use.

- M2

 

[DValentine]

Looks nice Sam. I will spend more time on the pictures later. Will have some questions about what you would do differently, for the diesel.





Gravy Davy