Kelderman vs Kore

[Davey]

Not looking to incite a "transmission war" type thread, but just curious for some opinions. I'm buying a 2005 3500 SRW QC Short Box ,auto w/ 4. 10's, which I want to run 37-13. 50-17 toyo mt's on. I'm looking for an aftermarket lift to clear 37's wtih about the same tire/fender clearance as in this pic.

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Will the Kore provide enough lift for this or will I need a body lift and/or coil spacers in the front? I really like the kelderman set up but $7000US=10000Can. :{

Which system will provide the best possible ride?

How many " does the Chase Kore actually lift?

All opinions and experiences appreciated.

Any pics of trucks with lift/tire combo's more than welcome.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Davey- it looks like your focus is more on lift. Kore is more into the performance kit that also adds a little lift. Not taking anything from Kelderman, their kit is worth every penny, it's just that my legs are too short.

Greg

 

[Ereynolds72]

I'm pretty sure I've read a post from Kent Kroeker that the use of 37" tires will require some body modifications. It might also be on their website. 35s should clear no problem though.

 

[Davey]

it's just that my legs are too short.

Greg

I've got the opposite, the lift will make the truck fit me.



While I'm after a lift to nicely clear 37's I still want it to be functional. I'm offroad quite a bit sometimes(work) and need as smooth a ride as possible(carry electronics). As I've never ridden in an air ride suspended truck (3/4 or 1 ton) I have no basis for comparison to a typical lift. Never ridden in a Kore equipped truck either, as they're apparently worlds apart from a skyjacker/Superlift setup. I called Kore, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.

Dave

 

[JPS]

air ride

If you have ever rode in an all air ride semi,-seat, cab,and air ride chasse, you would really be an air ride believer! I know nothing about the Core system, but do know Kelderman makes a good product!!! Lots of luck on your decision. jps

 

[Fred Swanson]

The air ride would be sweet for the road, not sure how it would respond off-road though. The 37x12. 5x17's on factory wheels will fit, but the 13. 5 like the Toyos will require fender trimming with the KORE kit.

The front lift is approximately 2-3 inches. Check my pics for some idea with 37's. Once I wear out these Goodyears, moving on to the Toyo 37's.

Again, this is with factory allow wheels, not after market. I would get fender rub with aftermarket wheels and 35's. Wanted to go taller, for the same reason, so the truck would fit me.

 

[SRadke]

The Kelderman kit doesn't ride as great on the road as you may think. Not a lot diffrent than a stock ride quality when unloaded. It really starts to shine under load. There are a couple other advantages as well but it sounds like you're in it mostly for the lift. You'll also find you won't get the clearance in that pic from the KORE system and 37's. The picture is a 10" Kelderman kit I believe. Lastly, I don't know where you got your pricing on Kelderman's stuff but that's about 70% more than I paid for a 5" kit last summer.



-Scott

 

[JPS]

air ride

Quite the air ride set up, Scot. As far as the ride in a Kelderman set up, I've never ridden in one! I assume you can have as much air in the bags as you want, or is there a limit as to how low the air pressure can be? I'm surprised Jeff Kelderman hasn't chimed in here somewhere! I think that is his name. I know I have bought other products from Kelderman and have been pretty happy with the product. Have a good one!! jps

 

[SRadke]

Jeff is a busy guy, he doesn't spend much time on the boards.



As for pressure in the bags it's pretty simple. It takes a certain pressure to carry the weight. This is dependant on square area (in the bags) and of course load. If you don't have enough pressure the bag will not carry the load and the truck will drop to the bumpstops. The second part of the equation is volume. If you decrease the volume in the bag and do not release air the pressure will go up. Basically, at any given load it takes "x" amount of pressure to hold it up. If you push more air into the bag you've increased volume, making the truck higher, but you still have the same pressure, pressure is load dependant.



-Scott

 

[JPS]

scot

I'll bet if he knew someone was thinking about his air ride he'd be on here!!! Ya I know he keeps pretty busy. jps

 

[NDanecker]

The Kelderman kit doesn't ride as great on the road as you may think. Not a lot diffrent than a stock ride quality when unloaded. It really starts to shine under load. There are a couple other advantages as well but it sounds like you're in it mostly for the lift. You'll also find you won't get the clearance in that pic from the KORE system and 37's. The picture is a 10" Kelderman kit I believe. Lastly, I don't know where you got your pricing on Kelderman's stuff but that's about 70% more than I paid for a 5" kit last summer.

-Scott

Does this 5 link rear setup solve axle wrap? (I'm thinking so... just confirming). Would you buy this kit again?

I have the Superlift 4" setup and think it stinks. It magnifies axle wrap since what your basically doing is moving the axle away form the leaf spring increasing the moment arm.

I was upstate this past weekend on the a froozen lake with ~4" of snow. It snowed another 8" over night and I had a hell of a time getting off the lake. It was all to easy get the rear hopping (axle wrap) which I then had to stop moving then start again. Just bad... .

 

[SRadke]

Axle wrap is a thing of that past with a 4 link rear. One of the reasons I purchased the kit was to eliminate a bad axle wrap/vibration I had when loaded, both are gone now. I can still get an axle hop from time to time but that's atributable to a soft shock setting and radial tires. I could crank the shocks up and put a stop to that.



In my opinon any lift over 2" on a performance diesel (especially with a manual transmission) requires traction bars of some kind. It's just too much torque to the ground for spacer blocks and leaf springs.



Would I buy air ride again, maybe. I don't need a 5" lift, it's just too high for me. I bought it because I wanted the long arm kit and had to go 5" to get it. The fit, finnish, adjustability, and durabilty of the system are all excellelent though, just depends what you're after.



-Scott

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

To clear things up a bit.

The KORE systems do lift the front of the trucks 2. 5 inches maybe 3 on the short beds. They can clear the 37" Goodyear MT/R's no problem. I do have a little rub on the control arms when fully locked. I can hit the front of the rear fender on full compression. I have custom rear bump stops that allow more compression in out testing. That is the only rubbing I have seen. The Toyo is huge in comparison to the Goodyear of the same, 37" size. Toyo's 37" tire is 13. 5" wide and will rub on the control arm and the front fender against the door mounts. For me it is a simple solution..... Cut the fender, but we race desert and have been cutting up trucks for years. For the normal guy who doesn't need a 37" tire for ground clearance at top speed, the 35" Toyo is the best E rated tire on the market. Minimal rubbing, only at full lock to the right on the control arms. Look for custom KORE control arms in the future. They are Mighty, Trick, and Ultra Functional. Plus, they will eliminate rubbing!!!



Davey,

The Kore trucks really work well off road. Shine is the optimum verbage. They are designed and tested in the most brutal of conditions. Breakage and failure are non present. The systems are adapted from an off road racing heritage and designed for your truck. The Chase system is the best bang for the buck. At just under $2501. 00, it is completely affordable and includes all shocks, towers, and springs. The system is amazing off road as well as on. Very smooth, nice and fluffy on the hwy.



Greg

 

[Punkineater]

Does this 5 link rear setup solve axle wrap? (I'm thinking so... just confirming). Would you buy this kit again?



I have the Superlift 4" setup and think it stinks. It magnifies axle wrap since what your basically doing is moving the axle away form the leaf spring increasing the moment arm.



I was upstate this past weekend on the a froozen lake with ~4" of snow. It snowed another 8" over night and I had a hell of a time getting off the lake. It was all to easy get the rear hopping (axle wrap) which I then had to stop moving then start again. Just bad... .

I would assume you are running their block solution in the rear. The wheel hop problem could be all but cured with a set of custom Atlas rear spring packs. This would eliminate the blocks and thus much of the leverage contributing to your hop. The lift companies are doing us a big disservice by not offering full rear packs to consumers who have the torque of the diesel.

 

[Davey]

The Kelderman kit doesn't ride as great on the road as you may think. Not a lot diffrent than a stock ride quality when unloaded. It really starts to shine under load. There are a couple other advantages as well but it sounds like you're in it mostly for the lift. You'll also find you won't get the clearance in that pic from the KORE system and 37's. The picture is a 10" Kelderman kit I believe. Lastly, I don't know where you got your pricing on Kelderman's stuff but that's about 70% more than I paid for a 5" kit last summer.



-Scott

Hey scott, I was waiting for you to reply, as I remember reading about your kit when you first got it.

I will be packing up to 400 liters of fuel, front and rear road armors with a winch in the front and couple hundred pounds of tools, etc minimum. Would this be enough weight to smooth out the kelderman a bit over stock? In your pics you have one stating "Maxed out suspension travel. Equal to 8-10 inches of lift. "

Is there a certain height that delivers the best ride, or is it all relative?

Have you had any issues with your kit, as I need reliability to be #1?

The pic I linked to is a 8-10" kit and probably what I would run, or the 6-8" perhaps. I am going to try to track down the owner of that truck and pick his/her brain a bit.

How does your truck repond to washboard/pothole roads compared to stock?

As for the pricing, I called yesterday and got a quote of $5995 for the 8-10" kit, plus another $750 to upgrade to the 7100 bilsteins(all six) and $450 for the rear drop swaybar kit. I believe the 6-8" kit was $500 less. With exchange, shipping, and tax it will be $10000 Canadian. Thus the inquiry into the Kore system, as it has very good feedback from TDR members. However, no fender cutting will be taking place whatsoever, so I'll talk to Greg or Kore and get some more options.



Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it.

Dave

 

[SRadke]

My truck never see's scale at less than 8000 pounds. Toolbox, fuel, heavy running boards, trailer hitches, all add weight but you're got to remember the rear bags in this system are something like 8" dia. They're huge for a pickup. It only takes 20-25 psi in the back to hold up and empty truck. When I say it rides better with weight I mean the more the better. Best ride I've ever had was with 4000 pounds in the bed.



As for best ride at height, you'll get the best ride at the height the system was designed to be run at, 5" for mine. I can drop air and let it down to 2" where it rides like alumber wagon (on the bumpstops) or add air and push it up to about 7" where the front driveline begins to bind up and howl. Actually driving at higher than 7" is not an option. You'll also have the track bar and alignment set for your ride height and it will change as the height changes.



Reliability, I've had no problems. It's a tuff kit, well made. I'm not going to say it will take what the KORE stuff takes but it's not really designed to. I ranit around in the desert while I was deer hunting and it preformed very well, better than stock. The added suspension travel is what makes the diffrence. Eliminating the axle wrap helps a bunch on pothole/washboard roads too.



As for pricing, you're dealing with a diffrent kit than I have. I suspect there are front (and possibly rear) drivline changes that must be made for a lift of that height and that would add cost. I also went with Rancho's rather than Bilsteins and 4 rather than 6 because I wanted a smoother ride. More is not always better.



Lastly I just realized we're talking about a 99 not a third gen so it's not apples to apples. Why I didn't catch that before you mentioned the drop swaybar kit I don't know My advise, find sombody with his kit on a second gen and talk to them.



-Scott

 

[Tim]

Six Bilstein 7100s on a road driven truck is an absolute waste of money. I'd imagine no matter how they were valved, that much dampening would make your truck ride like crap, too.



One shock per corner is all that is necessary in this day and age. It isn't 1985 anymore.

 

[Davey]

Six Bilstein 7100s on a road driven truck is an absolute waste of money. I'd imagine no matter how they were valved, that much dampening would make your truck ride like crap, too.



One shock per corner is all that is necessary in this day and age. It isn't 1985 anymore.

Just going by their recommendation with shocks. I'm going to just run the 5100's one per corner. Besides ,1985 was 6 shocks per wheel wasn't it?



Scott, Talked to kelderman the other day again and was told the 8-10" kit is a totally different animal than what you're running. Bigger bags, no "surge" tanks with the 8-10". Maybe a few other things as well.

Thanks for your input everyone.

Dave

 

[Tim]

Just going by their recommendation with shocks. I'm going to just run the 5100's one per corner. Besides ,1985 was 6 shocks per wheel wasn't it?

It was 6 hydraulic shocks per wheel, or 4 gas charged twin tube shocks. About the same as one Bilstein 7100.