Archived Knock from front of engine

[rich224]

Just returned from West Virginia pulling loaded 30 ft gooseneck, had problems maintaining speed on grades, wound up all the way down into first gear at 20 to 25 mph to keep temperature off of the 240 degree mark on the water temp guage, but did hit it a couple of times. The alarm went off to check guages, I finally figured out that I could keep the water temp down by watching the EGT guage, trying to keep it into the bottom of the yellow range (1050 to 1250 degrees) until cresting the rise, on the way down she would cool off to normal temps. Now back in good ole southern Mississippi, I'm having a knocking sound in the front of the engine.



Any guesses to my problem, and any recommendations on who to take it to for repairs ??



2001 Qcab dually 4x4, auto, 355's, 4" exhaust, AFE air filter, EGT, boost, & trans temp guages on pillar, EDGE comp box, turnbuckle on wastegate - - 35 lbs boost.

 

[Woodenhead]

What temps were the EGTs hitting before you figured out to keep it below 1250? A basic rule of thumb is not exceed 1250 MAX sustained temp. If you ran too hot for too long you may have done some engine damage. I hope this isn't the case .



Mike

 

[rich224]

Well, I'm afraid that it may just be the case, a friend told me to put in some Marvel Mystery Oil and run it some. He said it might be some accumulations on the valves. I tried it, and only put a couple of miles on it before the knock started getting louder, I was going to town and back ( 45 mile round trip), but changed my mind. I guess I should pull the head to see if the valves or pistons are damaged and go from there - - - any other suggestions ???

Richie

 

[Woodenhead]

I'm not 100% sure what happens when the EGTs go to inferno temps. I know it's hard on valves but I think you can start melting the tops off the pistons also. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong and give you some better detail.



Dump the oil, look for debris and send away a sample for analysis. Just a suggestion, couldn't hurt.



Good excuse to tear it apart and build a bigger better stump puller (not what you wanted to hear I'm sure).



I feel your pain :{ .



Mike

 

[Missouri Mule]

rich224, Could it be possible water pump failure?

Seemed like your thermostat wasn't working.



But if a cooked piston could send your coolant temps that high (while going the sloweven pulling a trailer up hill) the piston is probably the problem.

 

[Extreme1]

An oil analysis is a good idea for a cheap partial diagnosis. Next would be a compression test.



Aliminum melts around 1250 degrees depending on the alloy. If you were running it over that for more than a few seconds, you could have damaged some pistons. Pulling a big trailer up a hill with a pegged temp guage is worse than getting high EGT in a quick accelleration run for a few seconds.



It coulcd be other things too. Try taking the belt off and running it for a few seconds to make sure the noise is coming from the engine and not one of the accessories. Be aware that you won't have coolant flow so don't run it oo long.



Is it louder hot or cold? Loaded or no load?



Are the exhaust manifold bolts all tight?

 

[rich224]

Thanks guys, I'll try taking off the belt & running it, and get an oil sample. I think Gerhardt's in New Orleans (60 miles away) can do an analysis on the oil. Guess I'll have to drive down there in the Ranger (YUK!!) if the wife will let me out ( found out I've got pneumonia at the doc's yesterday). Will post any results ASAP.



Thanks again, Richie



P. S. At 190,000 miles, you know that I'm my own warrantee station.

 

[barepa]

been there done that, you have a melt down. a bad thermostat is your and was my problem . it will be a #6 piston , put a 180 back in her when you get it fixed. stays cool all the time. i pull heavy all the time. my 2cents [ been 53rd too. coming to a motor near you soon. lol

dave

 

[JTBMC]

Barepa,

So your saying that if he has a melt down it will sound as though there is a knock in thse engine, his knock appears to be at the front of the engine.

TJ

 

[rich224]

A buddy came over and pulled the thermostat, it was a 190, and appeared to be in good working order. He also listened to the engine with an automotive stethoscope, but couldn't determine what was making the knock.

I'm still under the weather, can't seem to shake this pneumonia, I tried to go out and get an oil sample, but got dizzy and dropped the nice clean "mason jar" that I was going to use, guess it'll have to wait till I get better.



tjlafitte - - - - seems we're from the same neighborhood, living in Carriere, but coming from somewhere SW of here - - - - I retired from the N. O. F. D. in 1992, but have been here since 1986.



Keep the info coming - - - - got nothing to do but sit here at the "puter" or in front of the TV.



Thanks to all, Richie

 

[JTBMC]

Hey Ritchie,

TJLaffite here, I'm just south of you off Old Ness Plantation rd. and left at the Spanish Oaks, down the hill a piece and just before you cross the Granny branch, down in the bottoms under the oaks in an old log house, and you know me well, hint the Sailor with the half empty coffee cup, and the push broom mustache, with the fast & all powerful White Dodge 4X4 ARRRGHH, and with new boots on, no not Noel he is just north of you on top of the hill.

Well I guess I'll come pull the oil sample for you this evening after I get the water pump and radiator back in this tractor in workin on.

See ya, TJ

 

[barepa]

tj, it knocks like a rod bearing, pull the head, take a look. you will have to get into it anyway.

#6 is last to get cooled.

with the 180, water temp never goes over 190 on the hills

and yes i do take it easy on them. gross loaded i,am 33,000 to 40,000 pounds.

my wife said i was right at leasted once. time will tell on both. lol

dave

 

[rich224]

TJ,



You must be laughing your head off by now !!!! I've had a couple of visitors who listened to the knock and the consensus is that at 190,000 miles & one rod (or wrist pin) knocking - - - - maybe I should be looking for a lower mileage used engine as the cheapest way out - - - - I guess I've got to pull her apart, if just out of curiosity, but the only safe way to go with THIS engine is probably a complete rebuild according to the neighborhood consensus. I've started looking on the TDR and E-Bay - - - nothing as yet. Will keep you posted - - - - going to post a picture of the load that killed her in my gallery.



Richie

 

[JTBMC]

Hey Rich,

I just got this tractor back togather and running and now I'm to darn tired to leave the house. I will have to give you another day of rest and then Noel and I will help you pull her apart.

Headed for the shower see ya.

TJ

 

[barepa]

Good luck Rich I hope it,s only a rod bearing.

Dave

 

[John - K5AWO]

Originally posted by rich224

going to post a picture of the load that killed her in my gallery.

Rich, a truck that purty deserves another chance. Let TJ pull it apart and replace the rod bearing (wrist pin). My vote is that is what it seems to be (long distance hearing aid here. . . smile. . )



Is that tractor the load you had on? What's it weigh? I'm guessing as much or maybe more than the truck?

 

[rich224]

Hey guys, here's the latest - - - - to answer the latest question, I was pulling a heavier gooseneck than was pictured, and had an International with a 370 Cummins used to pull mobile homes on her, probably a good deal heavier than the tractor. A friend talked me into taking it to a dealer, where they are saying stuff like broken valve spring, stuck valves, or bent pushrods. That sure sounds better than a piston rod or wrist pin. Will post what ever the out come is - - - - hopefully sometime next week.



Thanks for the help & support, Richie