KORE suspension and slide in campers

[geusterman]

Hi boys. Been out campering through the gopher country of the West... dispensing 40 grain medicine. I carry about 4000# of BigFoot camper and ammo on a KORE Race suspension inside a 04. 5 SRW 3500.



My previous terminator was an 02 with Camper Special (overloads and swaybar) 2500 with Rancho 9000's for sway added plus Kelderman hitch rear air ride. Worked real good except for rough roads and washboards which tried to take apart my truck/camper.



So here I am. Two inches of KORE coil spring in front (very nice for occasional dirtbike and ride) levels the truck. The camper sinks the rear so bad that I added (4) 2. 5" spacers to take up the slack between the overloads and the frame stops... which help a lot. But not enough. The load is still too much for the soft springs we have. Also... sway is still an issue.



We are not going the air bag route here... like adding a Timbren rubber brick or bone hard air bag and wrecking my KORE suspension's advantages. So... Rancho's are also out... because KORE is in... .



Check out my thinking if you would. Thinking about adding a 4 spring overload pack (with some holes to pin overload spacers onto the spring pack when loading the camper on to keep my headlights off the tops of the pine trees on the highway) and good HD sway bar. That is my best thinking with the reservation that the sway bar would hurt off-road ride by transferring wheel shock to the whole rear end instead of one wheel. Anyone out there with REAL backroad warrior experience that hauls heavy and fast that could jump in here? Greatly appreciated. George (Have Guns Will Travel )

 

[Tim]

You are way overloaded.



The last thing I'd be doing is using a suspension that is softer than factory.



My calculations put you overloaded by at least 12% if your truck is similar in weight to mine. It looks like you have an extra tank which holds more fuel, so I'd be willing to bet you're more than that.



You need a dually. No other way around it--you're WAY overloaded.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Since the springs are the same between SRW and DRW this would not help solve George's dilemna. I'd suggest calling Greg or Kent for advice.



However, I will agree with Tim. George, it's time to get a DRW :-laf



Then you will need to tow a CJ, Toyota, or ATV for trailing. All sounds expensive.

 

[jrobinson2]

I run hard with a camper but I only end up around 9200 lbs most of the time, its also a popup so a lot less problems with stability.

I would try a rear swaybar, I still run the OEM swaybar on mine and it seems to work fine with the KORE parts. You might consider a disconect for the end links for when you are empty, I doubt the ride will suffer at all loaded.

I assume you have the mini packs? I think you are on the right track with a heavier overload pack.

Have you considered building removable frame stops to completely eliminate the overload pack when running light?



Jared

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Hi boys. Been out campering through the gopher country of the West... dispensing 40 grain medicine. I carry about 4000# of BigFoot camper and ammo on a KORE Race suspension inside a 04. 5 SRW 3500.



)

WOW!!!! ,

That is quite a load. I suspect that stock suspension would have suffered too. You could always reinstall the upper overloads, that would help with the sway. I would shy away from the anti-swaybar too. A good set of Firestone airbags would be good for the Camper. I would fab up a disconnect on the axle side of the airbags so they could be disconnected while offroading at speed. When I put 4000#'s of horse pellets in the bed of my 2wd dually, it sinks out real bad too. I don't think the Dually would help much except for a tire issue. Give me a call and maybe we can brainstorm up a solution for your issues.



Greg/DRC

 

[Regcabguy]

I went with the KORE Chase in my 99 Reg. w/1800 lb. Popup camper. Backing out of the driveway with camper remounted bottomed out the suspension. Freeway manners were scary to say the least. I pumped up the airbags to 85lbs. and gained some relief but still not good. Went up to Deaver and had the mini-pak replaced with the factory overload + an add a leaf and reinstalled the old Rancho 9000's. Much better stability and sway control. I was able to reduce air pressure to 25lbs. in the Ride Rites. Offroad in Baja was competent but with nowhere near the articulation I'd desire. I can't go all that fast anyway with a camper. I'm retaining the rear Chase setup for future application in the event I off the camper. Unladen or with a shell the Chase system was a blast to drive but dissapointing with the camper. You can't have it both ways I guess.

 

[jrobinson2]

I went with the KORE Chase in my 99 Reg. w/1800 lb. Popup camper. Backing out of the driveway with camper remounted bottomed out the suspension. Freeway manners were scary to say the least. I pumped up the airbags to 85lbs. and gained some relief but still not good. Went up to Deaver and had the mini-pak replaced with the factory overload + an add a leaf and reinstalled the old Rancho 9000's. Much better stability and sway control. I was able to reduce air pressure to 25lbs. in the Ride Rites. Offroad in Baja was competent but with nowhere near the articulation I'd desire. I can't go all that fast anyway with a camper. I'm retaining the rear Chase setup for future application in the event I off the camper. Unladen or with a shell the Chase system was a blast to drive but dissapointing with the camper. You can't have it both ways I guess.

This is the exact opposite of my experience with my Kore system. I ran it with the Kore setup and factory overloads for about 6 months before installing the mini packs. I lost nothing when I added the mini packs, with the camper loaded I have no problem at all with bottoming the rear until the speed is way past sane, the sway is about the same as the ranchos on the highest setting but the ride is far better, control in emergency manuvers is also much better now than it was with the Ranchos. One thing I have noticed is that there are several different styles of rear springs on the second gen trucks, some appear to me to be quite a bit stiffer, this may make a difference.





Jared

 

[geusterman]

It is true I am "overloaded" but the E BFG's hardly get warm at highway 80mph. They are the issue as far as the SRW/DRW wars but I won't have a DRW... no good for snow/mud and clipping corners. Plus... I park my rig anywhere and sure as ... you know... I will clip a Ricer or something. I have steel Ricksons/H Range Michelins but too heavy and too hard for back country. Considering an F or G and aluminum Ricksons but OK for now. Saggy butt and rocking have to go without airbags (back to washboard death rattles) and Ranchos (which are great for sway... but not for bumps). Many ranchers in MT have added extra overloads to their 3500's. The new 3 gen springs are nice for ride but just too soft. Jared had a good idea on a removeable overload spring stop... but hate to mess with tube frame. I have a nifty spacer setup that comes and goes quick and takes the rubber out as well leaving about 3" for empty play. The extra overloads may help sway... so I should start there first. If the KORE front springs had not leveled the truck the issue would be slightly less of one but I won't raise the rear. Too high already. I have the mini-paks and like Jared saw no sag difference between the factory slab and the mini paks. OTD... good to see your words... will still be building the ultimate aluminum rivit camper (ala EarthRoamer) one of these days. Aluminum flatbed coming along and now has hinged sides that lock and fold down for access to the area under the camper normally used for the factory beds. Real neat. Room for gen or firewood or ammo or... ?



Real suspension is the order of the day. Not airbags or rubber bricks. By setting on the overloads the frame has 4 points of contact for the load... which is good. I wish I could hear from someone who consciously added a sway bar while noting ride quality. Must not be too irritating or we would hear more I guess. Thanks, George.

 

[Tim]

I think if you insist on continually overloading your truck, stiffer springs and more shock dampening are going to be required. You're going to have to increase spring rate to control that kind of load, and you're going to have to dampen the motion of the stiffer springs.



Maybe custom leaf springs are your best option. They can be made with a heavier spring rate and since you're loaded all the time, they'll probably offer more control and a similar or better ride.



I would make sure you check your insurance policy. Some will not cover an overloaded truck in an accident. You know you're quite a bit overloaded so I'd definitely check it to be sure.

 

[PKnoerzer]

I use an IPD anti-sway bar and it DOES affect the ride when empty. It's a necessary evil with the camper loaded, but I take mine off in the winter. Nothing helps the sway better than a bar though.

 

[geusterman]

PKnoerzer! Thanks. I just knew it would be an issue. Especially when the front sway bar on the new Power Wagon is disconnectable for off-roading. I don't really "off-road" like a jeep but travel the back roads heavy (like AlCan or MT dirt roads or gopher fields etc. ) and need the Fox's. I have Fox's on my snowmobile and mountain bike. PK... I will start with the beefier overloads and see where I go. Maybe a little sway is worth ride quality. We will see. George

 

[DKlimas]

Compromise - tis the name of the game. There is no one-size-fits-all. This is what works for us.



There has been a 25C10. 5 Bigfoot camper on my 2003 dually for at least 37,000 miles. Approximately 14,000 miles ago I installed the T. Rex/KORE Chase 7100 series Bilstein shocks. Kent had the shocks valved for the heavy load.

When the camper is loaded the truck levels out just about right - just barely making contact with the overload springs. Since the loaded truck was level with stock springs I opted to keep the stock springs and not install the T. Rex/KORE springs.

I replaced the stock overload spring bump stops with taller ones to eliminate an annoying "thump" when the suspension would work going over bumps.

Aside from the local washboard dirt roads our shake-down trip included the Denali Highway in Alaska - plenty of dirt, washboard and ruts. This setup likes to run at speeds above 25-30 mph, and is very stable at 45-65 mph.

Twelve-thousand pounds plus is a lot of weight to be schlepping around off-road let alone on the highway. At speeds below 25 mph it acts like a 12k lb top-heavy behemoth - remember how it feels running over a speed-bump at 5-10 mph? At speeds above 30 mph the suspension starts working - while not a plush velvety smooth ride it does take all of the harshness out of the bumps and road imperfections and is tolerable for a full 8-10 hour day of driving. Vehicle control and stability are extremely good - no surprises or quirks - very responsive for quick 65 mph hazard avoidance maneuvers (been there!). Aside from the slow speed-bump induced sway, at speed sway has never been an issue with our setup.

With the exception of the plating finish on the Bilstein shocks I am very pleased with all aspects of this suspension upgrade.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[Regcabguy]

I think my situation is unique in that my camper although relatively light was mounted 24/7 for five years prior to installation of the Chase system. Spring fatigue is probably a contributing factor in my situation and Fox shocks valved stiffer might of helped. My front springs setup seem to work fine. When I was up at Deaver they suggested a custom rear spring which would eliminate the block and perhaps be the perfect fix for me. Mucho,mucho bucks I'm sure plus you have to leave it for a time so they can experiment and come up with the right combination. Kent offered to revalve my rear shocks but I felt the rear spring issue was more of the contributor to my control problems. I know member Marek loves his race setup and carries a lighter camper than me.

 

[geusterman]

I now have two sets of Benz springs from Portland OR rated at 3500 pounds for the set. My stock dual overloads are rated at 1000 lbs. According to Swain Spring Service in Great Falls (ag country has the answers!) the sway should be reduced significantly. They said the new overloads (5 spring!) will be close to the frame stops until I load heavy then "decurve" to 1 1/2 inches... which may or may not be ok for empty. Anybody want to put these on for me? George

 

[jrobinson2]

Swing by Vegas, I'll put em in for you



Jared

 

[geusterman]

You teaser Jared! Dave... you made some good points. The deeper rubber on the stop to get the load on the overloads so it does not "slap" is good... like my spacers. I don't want the truck to drop so far which makes my wonder why your BigFoot does not sag as much as mine. Maybe the minipaks are softer. Having the front up 2. 5 with the longer KORE coil springs makes rear sag accentuated. Your comments about speed are spot on. I experience the same with the Fox. Sometimes back roads need slower speeds but the ride starts at higher speeds. I like speed. It's usually ok. Except for my passengers George

 

[Desert Proven]

I've been running the KORE race system for two years now and have a pop up camper as well. I initially started without the mini-pack because I was concerned about the weight of the camper (loaded, we are about 9000-9500 pounds). I later tried the mini-pak and never took it off. What I've found is that, IMO, the mini-pack performs better than the factory overloads for my application. I was rarely heavy enough to make contact with the factory overloads during normal driving, so what I ended up with was a lot of rebound from the overloads during hard driving.



I've also hauled 4000 pounds of gravel in the bed of the truck with the factory overload springs, and with the mini-pack and it is scary with either set up. I think that 4000 pounds is simply too much weight for the bed of the truck. In any event, you have to have E rated tires if you are going to be doing that.



I also know that there are some guys with the KORE system that are carrying pretty heavy campers. You might want to talk to Kent and see what kind of set up they are using.

 

[geusterman]

Thanks Marek. I have a message into Kent for a return call Thursday. I want the HD overloads to have plenty of space to cycle when empty. I can use spacers between the stops and the overload springs when hauling heavy. There is a way to do this. 4K is not so bad... at least in the older trucks. Gotta be a way. Best of both worlds. George

 

[geusterman]

Just a follow-up for the sake of this thread... the overloads were one-hole springs for the 2nd gen so I sent them back. I called the spring company KORE uses for mini-paks in CA (can't remember name... call Greg or KORE... ) and they made me a 4 spring overload set with 17/32 holes in the ends plus an upturn. I built some spacers with half inch pins that go on the end of the overload springs (4) that take up the space between the frame stop and overloads. That way the load sets right on the overload springs right away. When empty, I pop the spacers off and have the 3. 5 inch clearance for empty ride quality. The new springs have taken all the camper roll out that bothered me and handles like an empty truck at speed. Amazing really. Did not need the sway bar which affects ride quality... especially washboards... kind of defeating the KORE system's value. No air bags either which would also defeat the value of the KORE and real suspension. I think air bags are a quick fix. I have not been offroad yet... but it hits RR tracks well. There is a little rebound on certain continuous bumps... that was there before. A kind of "porpoising"... but time will tell if it is an issue. That is about it... looking forward to some miles. Like to find a little taller F tire... dreamer right? I have some steel Rickson's and Michelin 245's but they weigh more, don't cycle as well and are real stiff... . ride quality stuff. Thanks for your input. George

 

[Lorenz]

Valve shims are about $2 for Sway Aways, Kings, or FOX Shocks.



With some elbo grease you can open up the shoxs and replace the valves and stiffen-up the rebound, and eliminate the "porpouse" effect. Kind of intimidating to open up a shock but very very easy after you get the first one done and gain a little confidence.



I really like what you did to put a "Fix" on the situation.