Land Rover '73 + 2004 Cummins CR

[Bjarni G]

I have been reading this forum for some time but not participated until now.



I am putting a 2004 Cummins motor and transmission into a heavily modified '73 Land Rover along with some beefier axles. I'm new to the Cummins world so I might have some questions for you guys. Let's start with pictures.



Here is the truck

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and here is the engine and drivetrain

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The truck now has a Ford 400 cu. gas motor, C6 transmission, B&W 1356 transfer case, Dana 44 front axle and Dana 60 semifloat rear axle. This will all be swapped out for a Cummins, 48re, North West Fab 203 doubler, NVG273, Dana 60 front axle and Ford 10. 50" rear axle. Tires are 44" Super Swampers TSL and I'm thinking of ways to make 49" IROK's fit :-laf The body has been widened 10" and the text on the license plate is the Icelandic word for "Exaggerated".



So... onto the questions. The engine is unused (14 miles) and has been sitting for 2 years, what should I do before turning it for the first time? Lubricate the cylinders walls, build up oil pressure or something else? Also, how much does the engine incline in the Dodges, is it save to assume that the power steering reservoir should be level?



Bjarni G.

 

[SRadke]

That rig is awesome! I like it!



As for the engine, I'd say Just fire it up. Being virtually new I don't see any reason why any of the rings or valves would stick. In the Dodges the engine sit's virtually level. It slants slightly to the rear but most pickups rake to the front to counter that angle. I don't see any reason however why a few degree down angle toward the back would be a problem.



-Scott

 

[guava]

I like the project a lot. Looks great now. Is it a Series III with a lot of mods or one of the very earliest Defenders?

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The engine is unused (14 miles) and has been sitting for 2 years, what should I do before turning it for the first time? Lubricate the cylinders walls, build up oil pressure or something else? Also, how much does the engine incline in the Dodges, is it save to assume that the power steering reservoir should be level?

First of all - that is going to be a SWEET project!!! I'm also using a common rail Cummins in my project Jeep.



If the engine has been sitting for two years in a relatively dry environment... you probably don't have to do anything besides crank it over for 15-20 seconds to build oil pressure and then fire it off and let it idle.



If I were you and I was worried about a little bit of rust in the cylinders - I'd just crank it over for 15 or so seconds while spraying 'fogging' oil (used in marine engines before winter storage) into the intake. This would help loosen things up if there is any minute surface rust on the cylinders. Let the starter cool for a minute or so and fire it off and let it idle.



I've never measured the incline, but it isn't anything out of the ordinary compared to other longitudinally installed engines. The power steering reservoir does not have to be level (they are not perfectly level when bolted to the engine and installed in OEM form). The fluid level when full will be below the top of the reservoir.



Best of luck on your project and welcome to the TDR!!



Matt

 

[Bjarni G]

Thank you guys for your compliments



The engine has been stored inside a heated building all the time so I'm not afraid it is rusted on the inside. But if the cylinders walls are too dry the rings might scratch them... Maybe I'm just being overly paranoid.



The power steering reservoir leans forward quite alot. I have not measured how much but I will do so. I will propably incline the engine as much as I need anyway to get decent angles on the rear driveshaft. The rear driveshaft will be short, much shorter than the front one, as the truck has relatively short wheelbase (122").



Bjarni G.

 

[mberry]

Just an FYI for you. The 2002 I had did have a limitation on how steep of a descent angle it could have before the engine oil would pour out of it. I don't remember where it would come from but I had it happen to me once. I got home and had lost about 1. 5 quarts in the 20 seconds or so I was going down the hill. If I remember it was somewhere in the 28 degree range but I am almost certain I am wrong on the number here.



I DO NOT KNOW if the newer engines have this problem or not, but at the very least you should be aware of it. Great project and welcome to the TDR!

 

[drtrox]

Also, how much does the engine incline in the Dodges?



Bjarni G.

Hi Bjarni, and welcome to the TDR. I just went to the garage and checked the angle of the engine, truck empty and sitting on level floor: 4. 8* (based on truck in signature)



Great vehicle you've got there! Don't forget to provide pictures of the progress.



Don

 

[Bjarni G]

The truck is registered as a 1973 Land Rover but there is not much left of the original truck. Just enough of the original frame to get it registered as a '73 model, the brake pedal, the center piece of the firewall and the door posts. The frame is mostly custom made and the body is donated from at least 7 different Land Rovers ranging from 1976 to 1997. The hood is custom made from fiberclass as well as the fender extensions.



Thank you Don for your measurement, it will help me make a decision on how much the engine will incline.



Here is a picture of the power steering pump. It shows how much the reservoir leans forward. I couldn't find my protractor to measure the angle.

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The truck, sad looking, before the teardown.

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Teardown started, front end off and most of the electrical system.

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I will post pictures of the progress but maybe not every day I have a full time job and a family so this work has to take place in the evenings and over the weekends. Hopefully I will get the engine seated this month so I can spend the rest of the year figuring out the electrics...



Bjarni G.

 

[GOT-Torque]

Sweet project, will be an awesome rig once it is completed.



I'm also swapping an 04 HPCR engine, auto transmission, and NV273 transfer case into another vehicle (ford Excursion). Sounds like we will both be dealing with the same electronic issues to work out. I think the hardest part is controlling the transmission. You can either buy a stand alone controller (around $1500 from ATS) or try to install all the factory dodge wiring and PCM (this is the route I am going to take).



You may want to do some research on the 48RE transmission before installing it in stock form. I would want to atleast swap the convertor and valve body out with an aftermarket one (fill in your favorite brand name here).



Keep us updated on your progress and good luck!

 

[Bjarni G]

Not much visible progress this weekend, but the old engine is now ready to leave. Hopefully I'll get it out before next weekend so I can test fit the Cummins and start designing motor and transmission mounts.



GOT-Torque, we are heading the same direction. To minimize the work on the electric system I'm installing a complete electrical system from a Dodge. That includes the instrument cluster, steering column and wheel and windshield wiper motor. I have found and bought most of the parts but still need the steering column and the underhood wiring harness including the power distribution center.



I will use the original PCM for the transmission and keep it in stock form except for a double deep oil pan. I wanted to beef it up but the cost to do so (converter, valve body, billet input/output etc. ) is more than I have spent on the whole drivetrain so far and I still end up with only a four speed. At least I postponed any beefing until the truck is running. I'm also considering other options transmission vise, the new 6 speed auto might be an option, an Allison auto and even a 6 speed manual. I will face these option when the 48re dies. That time depends on engine mods, I like the Arctic Air twin turbo setup from Relentless Diesel but that will kill the 48re in no time



Bjarni G.

 

[MMcCallie]

Hey Bjami G,

I am very eager to hear your findings about running an Allison 6 speed. I wish our best options weren't electronic. Beefing any auto is very expensive. Like you said, more than the whole drivetrain. I love your project vehicle. Keep us posted.

-Matt

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Here's a picture of my current screen saver. My kids, many moons ago (89), in Gardiner, MT. The 67 '88' Land Rover had a 4 banger Chevy iron duke and a Warn overdrive. I sure wish I still had this buggy. It had the safari top and I had 1/4 aluminum skinned plywood that spanned the rig from dash to bulkhead to rear so that I could sleep inside of it. Great little mountain crawler.



Tough little rig that could pull my TT from Missoula to Gardiner when I was in college. If I could have a 4bt in one of these I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven. :-laf

 

[Bjarni G]

Ok, things are moving slowly but there is some progress.



Old engine ready to leave

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Getting ready for the new motor.

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Cummins in da house

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My assistant, the artistic photographer at work...

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Making space for the engine

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Plenty of space... right

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First test fit, engine hoist to short

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A foot to short, I need to get a bigger engine hoist.

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First fitment went better than I hoped. The engine will fit but it will be tight. I will probably have to make some modification to the firewall to get the exhaust down. Also I did not have the aircondition pump and power steering pump at hand. Their original positions are inside the frame and there is not much room there. I may have to relocate them. Hopefully I will get a bigger engine hoist next weekend so I can get the engine to its place.



Bjarni G.

 

[Bjarni G]

Slow progress... but some.



The hole in the firewall getting bigger.

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My handsome assistants posing inside the hoist I built for this project.

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This is how I centered the engine in the frame, a cheap trick. Did the same for the rear of the transmission.

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It fits quite well but final placement will be more to the passenger side.

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Trying to get the engine as far back as possible without entering the passenger space.

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The hole in the firewall seen from the inside.

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[Bjarni G]

The motorbeam coming along.

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The engine is further back than in the Dodges relative to the front axle. Height is not set yet but I will try not to make the oil pan the lowest part of the vehicle

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The motorbeam welded.

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The motorbeam groomed.

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More grooming.

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Intercooler does not fit, has to be inside the steering box.

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The intercooler is to big... or the frame is to narrow. I decided to widen the frame and also lengthen it to fit "original" intercooler and radiator. I know I could get an intercooler and a radiator that would fit but where is the fun in that :-laf

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[supersonic]

Bjarni, you have quite a nice project going on. One word of advice though, If you are going to do all that work to fit the intercooler, make sure you use one with aluminum tanks. The one in your picture is out of an early 05 MY and is better off filled with lead as a boat anchor. Cheers.

 

[Bjarni G]

Thank you, and yes I am aware of the problems with the plastic tanks. I got this one for cheap ($50) on eBay and when it blows my plan is to remove the plastic tanks and weld aluminum end tanks to the core, or at least try to do so. If that fails I will find an all aluminum intercooler from a Dodge. They are the same size, right?



Bjarni G.

 

[supersonic]

That's the other reason I mentioned it. The aluminum tanked ones are a little bit wider at the bottom of the tanks and taper instead of bulge from the inlet to the top/bottom. I also considered welding homemade tanks to the one in our 05 MY but the material they make the ends of the core is tempered and would need to be anealed (sp?) to be suitable for welding. The ends of the tanks is also set in an epoxy resin that would melt if welded nearby. I finally cut my losses since it wasnt covered under warranty, and ordered a remanufactured unit from fleetair, they are really good people to work with and quite affordable around $350. US, and they can ship worldwide.

Good luck.

 

[Bjarni G]

Thanks, thats good info. I will widen the frame a little more than needed for the plastic cooler. So welding is out of the question, how about gluing new end tanks on? Nowadays you can get pretty strong stuff and if you also "strap" the end tanks to the core it might work. . Maybe not worth the hassle



Anyone know the dimensions of the Banks Techno-Cooler?



Bjarni G.