Laramie, Wyoming and the University of Wyoming

[RUSSELL5000]

My older son is very interested in chemistry. He took chemistry as a sophomore and this year as a junior he is taking advanced placement chemistry. Actually, I am overdue on posting a question here on why our trucks aren't using dimethyl ether rather than diesel fuel. That is, he has an active interest in chemistry.

I have encouraged him to consider chemical engineering as well as chemistry for college.

He really liked Wyoming during our trip west this past summer. We have been doing some research and the University of Wyoming offers the type of programs we are looking for.

My question: What is Laramie, Wyoming like? There appear to be a good number of members here from out west, and I thought some folks might be able to share some further insights.

Thanks!

 

[mwilson]

The "Highly Flammable" aspect concerns me a little....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether

 

[wyosteve]

Russell, feel free to pm me with specific questions. I'm a UW grad. Laramie is a town of around 25k people and thrives primarily on the university. Great proximity to the mountains for all the attendant activities. Sits at 7200 ft. elevation, so climate is cool and windy! Did I say 'windy'! Tuition is very reasonable compared to many. Airport connects to Denver, but is not a tough drive to DIA either. The petroleum engineering program is top notch. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the chem. engineering program.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Mike,

My son brought dimethyl ether to my attention: he pointed out that sulphur free, higher cetane, less particulate matter, NOx, and CO produced when combusted. Sounds like it could make for a simpler exhaust after treatment system and allow more power out of the engine (since less NOx and less particulates produced, let cylinder combustion temperatures rise, maybe don't need DEF/SCR, maybe fewer regenerations of the particulate filter, maybe no particulate filter, ....). Raises more questions than I can answer, that is for sure.

I wonder what is meant by "highly flammable?" Gasoline would be highly flammable, right? Surely, jet fuel? All are used regularly. Again, we have gone right off into more than I know.

Actually, I was impressed by his thinking.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Wyosteve,

Thanks much. I imagine you'll be hearing from us at some point.

The university website says they are making a significant investment in their engineering programs. You are also correct about the cost: would actually cost me less to have him go to Univ of WY rather than Penn State even with out-of-state tuition bump. He has good grades and so I would think some of that out-of-state tuition would be reduced.

While he has not said what he wants, I think he would like a school with 12,000 students or so better than the 40,000+ students at Penn State.

 

[mwilson]

Yeah, you kinda' wonder if they mean flammable like gasoline or flammable like the Hindenburg or Hydrogen.....big difference to me.

It is a great idea, I am impressed with him already.

We are selling some Propane powered M2 chassis, it makes sense for bulk Propane trucks PLUS does away with the SCR/DPF scenario. They are using a re-engineered for Propane 8.1L GM V8.

 

[TJJEEPER]

I wonder what is meant by "highly flammable?" Gasoline would be highly flammable, right? Surely, jet fuel? All are used regularly. Again, we have gone right off into more than I know.

Actually, I was impressed by his thinking.

Jet Fuel is just relabeled kerosene. I'm willing to bet you could throw a match in an open container and it would flame out unless it's been heated.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

TJJEEPER,

I had a chuckle on that one - I really had no idea what jet fuel was. I have always just heard people talk about jet fuel.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Well, back to the original topic of this thread.

My older son has applied and been accepted to the University of Wyoming in Laramie, WY, as well as Montana State University in Bozeman, MT. He remains adamant about chemical engineering. I am glad he is setting out with a firm goal in mind, but I have told him it is a giant world and it will be ok to learn and change.

I don't know what he will decide. I would be gone in a heartbeat if I were him. His mother is not excited about him being so far away from us, however.

Welcome any insight to either of these places and schools.

Thanks!

 

[wyosteve]

I don't think he can go wrong with either of those 2. Bozeman certainly is a 'prettier' town and closer to Yellowstone, etc. if that's his thing.

 

[jgillott]

A little off topic, but I went through my undergrad as a chemistry major. It seems like ages ago. In grad school I got in to the education aspect and I've been teaching for the last 20 years or so.

I've had many former students make a killing in the oil and gas and pharmaceutical industries. For a while, the drug companies were the top recruiters then it switched to oil and gas, and now has shifted back the other way again. In either case, tell your son to really focus on his organic chem classes when he has them and fill his schedule with as much physics as he can. Most chemistry programs only require calculus 1, 2, and 3. He may also benefit from differential equations if he can fit it in the schedule.

 

[jhenderson]

A quick bit of research shows the downfalls of dimythel ether. It contains 1/2 the energy of diesel and must be stored at a minimum of 75psi because it boils at -25c. The required ful tank would be twice as large as now needed plus it would have to be a pressure vessel.

 

[GrantP]

I think I would choose Bozeman in a heartbeat but he can't go wrong either way. It sounds like he's on a great career track. Pat yourself on the back no matter which school he chooses.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Jgillot,
I am right in line with what you are saying. I have reviewed the curriculum for quite a few different programs, and if he does the calculus/differential equations/linear algebra sequence, general chemistry/organic chemistry sequence, calculus-based physics, and general biology sequence in his first two years then he will have a large array of subsequent directions to choose from. He is quite focused on the chemical engineering, but there are really only two course that are unique to that in his first two years. So, I am very happy he is focused, but there is lots of room to change his mind.

That is actually what I did in school. In my first two years I found that I liked math more than anything else, loaded up in my junior and senior year, ending with math and statistics double major degrees. That started me on the actuary work path where I have been since.

He took a visit to Penn State (too big for his liking, although seemed like a great place) and Pitt (too big and in the middle of the city, not to his liking). We have done applications and visits to Ohio schools: he liked Akron which offers unique programs in corrosion engineering and polymer engineering; Youngstown, which would offer small class sizes and lots of teacher relationship which he likes – he may even be able to continue his cross-country there; Toledo, which has a very strong cooperative program which I like because he can experience the job and see whether he really likes it.

We will be visiting West Virginia University in Morgantown, just down south on I-79 in your general direction the weekend after this one. Then we will go to Ohio University in Athens, Ohio over the next weekend.
I would already be making packing lists to go out west if I were him. It sounds like either Wyoming or Montana would be just fine, so no way to lose. But, this is his decision. I find the hardest thing I have done as a parent so far is simply keeping my mouth shut. I really want to tell him what to do, but I want him to be able to think through situations and make serious choices without me. So, I just lock my jaw shut and wait for him to ask for an opinion (has not happened yet!)

Appreciate the input from all.

 

[jgillott]

While you are coming down to visit WVU, make arrangements to visit St. Vincent College in Latrobe Pa. Absolutely amazing college with one of the best science programs in the country. They have a unique 3/2 engineering program with Penn State, Pitt, and Catholic U that may be of interest to you.

 

[jgillott]

Here's the link to that St. Vincent program I mentioned.

https://www.stvincent.edu/svcWebsite/academics/majors-and-programs/mathematics-engineering

 

[JR]

I grew up in Laramie and have family there. It's a relatively low key town with a good program as youve already found out. My mother works with the Dean of the school, so if you have any questions that haven't been answered shoot me a PM and I can either find out for you or put you in touch with her.

 

[brods]

Check out the availability of internships. For an example of two extremes: My oldest graduated in three years with a degree in Actuarial Science, but did not do an internship. He has yet to find a job in the field (which was supposed to be starving for people).
My other son is in a program for Electrical Engineering where he alternates between working for three months and taking classes for three months. Each time he goes back to work he is with a different group within the company he works for. He has learned much about the dynamics and politics of working in the real world and has also learned subject areas he likes and ones he will want to avoid. He has already been asked by a few of the groups he's interned with to hire on with them once he graduates. When he graduates he will have a job if he wants it and if not he’ll have huge advantage looking for a different one over those graduating with just a piece of paper saying they are book smart.

Imo being prepared for the real business world is as important as the book knowledge schools teach. Given two otherwise equal schools, go with the one with the better internship program.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

jgillot,

Thanks for the link. Discussing with my son.

JR,

Thanks, and will take you up on the offer should my son head that direction.

brods,

You point is well taken. I am an actuary, and we have established a strong internship program at my company. It has been over five years since we have hired someone other than an intern. We also now have a pool of people who were interns from which we can draw as a first choice should we have unexpected openings. I doubt that we will ever hire someone who was not an intern in the future. To me this makes perfect sense - you know a lot more about a person after working with them for three months or more than you do in 45 minute interview.

One of the significant criteria I have encouraged my son to consider is the strength of the co-operative education program at the school.



Appreciate the thoughts - always open to more thoughts so we don't miss something.


I am struck by how different this is for my son than it was for me. I had one criteria: being able to pay. That narrowed things way down.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

My son has completed all kinds of paper work (and I have paid a bunch of fees).

He has been accepted at the University of Wyoming as well as Montana State University.

He received a merit scholarship from the University of Wyoming that effectively eliminated the out of state tuition surcharge. He also received another merit scholarship in engineering which will require him to work on projects with his teachers in addition to providing some additional funds. He has also been accepted into the honors program. Wyoming is very reasonably priced to begin with and the merit scholarships he has received make Wyoming a viable option.

He received a merit scholarship from Montana State University that effectively eliminated roughly one-half of the out of state tuition surcharge. He was invited to apply for a merit scholarship for the entire amount of tuition and fees, which he did. I think that is kind of a long shot, but we will see what happens. Montana State awarded the smallest merit scholarship of the different schools he applied to. Montana State is also one of the higher cost schools. Thus, Montana is not a viable option at this time.

I noticed in my research that the University of Wyoming is facing a challenging financial situation. That actually seems to be the situation for public universities. I am a little concerned that if my son chooses Wyoming that the costs could change. The scholarship offer letters state that the amounts are so much per year for four years, and so in theory he is fine. I have no experience with such situations and it is a little worrisome.

We have reviewed large numbers of YouTube videos of Laramie and the University of Wyoming. There are all types. Laramie looks like a nice small town in the high desert. I have been watching the weather and some days are colder than here in Erie and other days are warmer. The days appear to be sunnier, which is not surprising for Wyoming (and the fact that Laramie does not sit next to a great big old lake).

If anyone has any additional insights into Laramie and the University of Wyoming then I would welcome your observations. My son intends to study chemical engineering (he is quite adamant about that).