Latest Gen Airport Rescue Trucks - EPA Run Amok?

[rbattelle]

The latest issue of Diesel Progress has an article on Oshkosh's latest generation of Airport Rescue and Fire Fighting (ARFF) trucks, called the Striker.

It's powered by a Deutz V8. What blew my mind was the comment in the article about how it was tricky to set up the engine because they have to be careful that a regeneration event doesn't impact a rescue or firefighting operation.

That's right, the truck has SCR and meets Tier 4i/Euro 5 emissions specifications.

Am I crazy to think that of all the engines in all the world, among those that should without a doubt be completely exempt from all emissions regulations are ARFFs? If I'm in a plane crash, I want the rescue trucks to get to the scene as fast and reliably as possible - I don't care if they're emitting a smoke cloud to shame Mt. St. Helens.

Come to think of it, shouldn't ambulances also be exempt?

-Ryan

 

[mwilson]

The latest issue of Diesel Progress has an article on Oshkosh's latest generation of Airport Rescue and Fire Fighting (ARFF) trucks, called the Stryker.



It's powered by a Deutz V8. What blew my mind was the comment in the article about how it was tricky to set up the engine because they have to be careful that a regeneration event doesn't impact a rescue or firefighting operation.



That's right, the truck has SCR and meets Tier 4i/Euro 5 emissions specifications.



Am I crazy to think that of all the engines in all the world, among those that should without a doubt be completely exempt from all emissions regulations are ARFFs? If I'm in a plane crash, I want the rescue trucks to get to the scene as fast and reliably as possible - I don't care if they're emitting a smoke cloud to shame Mt. St. Helens.



Come to think of it, shouldn't ambulances also be exempt?



-Ryan

The military has passed on the EPA crap, all the new W/S and Freightliner military trucks have pre-emission Series 60 Detroits in them.



The heat signature alone from a regen could get your A** killed, let alone the reliability factor.



Mike.

 

[Bob4x4]

In the old days fire trucks had more power than all the rest and did not meet the same rules

 

[rscurtis]

What's the point of having emission controls on the firefighting engine when the incident you're fighting is putting out thousands (or millions) of times the pollution? According to the DTF, you have to drive a new OTR truck 150 miles to equal the particulate emissions generated when you cook one hamburger. "Big Government" at its best.

 

[LNaugle]

o i c... . so the government thinks one of their branches has to pass emmisions... . i understand why, but that seems hipocritical...

 

[Wingate]

military equipment doesnt have to adhere to EPA emissions laws...
Akin to the fact that law enforcement will write you a ticket for not wearing your safety belt, but do not have to wear one themselves... They can also talk on a cell phone while driving thru an active school zone!!.

 

[Jim W]

military equipment doesnt have to adhere to EPA emissions laws...
Akin to the fact that law enforcement will write you a ticket for not wearing your safety belt, but do not have to wear one themselves... They can also talk on a cell phone while driving thru an active school zone!!.

Wingate,
This is known as the GOLDEN RULE.

“HE WHO HAS THE GOLD CAN MAKE THE RULES. OR IN THIS CASE BREAK THEM. ”

Who said that the current administration had any sense in the first place and all of the EPA administers work for GREEN PEACE don't they?
Jim W.

 

[Bob4x4]

That's funny. I have a friend who's wife works for a government entity that is into future emission planning,he works for a major performance product company. What a combination!!!

 

[Wayne M.]

We were forcing Mack to give us the early E7/ emcon DPF system before it was ready. The results were and are troublesome. Now we're pushing the hybrid envelope, Or else the EPA levys heavy fines. I understand the FDNY is being allowed to override a regeneration while in PTO. This wasn't always the case and I think there has been a price to pay for it.

 

[rMetzger]

Would be a shame for that system to mysteriously just fall off the truck, wouldn't it?

 

[Wayne M.]

Would be a shame for that system to mysteriously just fall off the truck, wouldn't it?

This no joke- completely true. We are a NYS Satellite inspection station. Because we are a fleet, we can do our own inspections as an agent for our main shop, and issue stickers. Of course that means we get audited by the state. Usually that means the DMV. Because we do Heavy Diesel, we have our own opacity tester. The DMV just checks over the Facility, equipment and paperwork. Never look at the operation of the opacity tester- just it's printouts.
A couple months ago, UNANNOUNCED, we get a visit from an inspector from the NYS DEC. This guy has one job. To check out the opacity machine. Most of his work is with the troopers and validating their machines to follow through on summonses.
This whole story is off topic till now. As he was going about his business, He starts looking at a truck in the shop. He was able to see the whole exhaust system at a glance, and walked away. I can only imagine what could have happened if he didn't like what he saw...
Also, 2008 and up systems are integrated into the MID128 (engine) of the SAE diagnostic protocol. Like OBDII on light vehicles, it's pretty much foolproof, and has to work properly. Do you know anyone who can fool OBDII to run and pass monitors on a car that has a problem?

 

[MLee]

I would think that the airport Equiptment (fire equiptment) on an airport and for this type of use would be classified as off road use vehicles and not require these polution devices, and even run red dyed fuel as a farmers tractor can. They don't travel on the roads. Is the EPA all screwed up in this idea?

 

[Flying_gage]

Wayne M sounds as though he has experience working on fire apparatus...

I have experience driving it. We (fire dept) will not be exempt from it...

 

[Wayne M.]

Wayne M sounds as though he has experience working on fire apparatus...

I have experience driving it. We (fire dept) will not be exempt from it...

I don't personally have apparatus experience. But I talk with my fellow NYC mechanics. I CAN verify that when any truck is in PTO the 3 minute idle shutdown goes out the window.

 

[rbattelle]

They don't travel on the roads. Is the EPA all screwed up in this idea?

Strictly speaking, this isn't true. ARFFs have a top speed of 70 mph on the road because often plane crashes don't happen on airport grounds and the trucks have to be driven some distance over public roads to reach the aircraft. Nevertheless, your point is legitimate - there's little point in road-taxing this kind of vehicle.

Strict emission controls on emergency life-saving vehicles is, for me, the biggest sign yet that we are completely doomed. Why have I never heard fire chiefs and other commanders complaining about it on the news?

-Ryan

 

[Bob4x4]

The reality is that overall the new trucks don't suck as bad as the forums make them look. I deal with a fleet of freeway service trucks that sit and idle all day in the shade somewhere and only move a very small distance every day. They don't have. A very bad record

 

[rbattelle]

The reality is that overall the new trucks don't suck as bad as the forums make them look. I deal with a fleet of freeway service trucks that sit and idle all day in the shade somewhere and only move a very small distance every day. They don't have. A very bad record

Fair enough, but it still bothers me in principle. It's a little too close to putting the environment ahead of human life.

-Ryan

 

[Bob4x4]

Trust me I don't like either,for many reasons. The tree huggers have killed the diesel market. Imho the 3rd gens were plenty clean enough.