LE-607 as NV4500 lube?

[CCollar-OLD]

I was speaking with one of the fellows at Mag-Hytec last week, and he recommended using the LE-607 (SAE 90) gear lube in my NV4500. This is the same gear lube I use in the rear diff.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this? The lube is certainly high quality, but SAE 90 is not the recommended lube.

Any comments are appreciated!

Craig

 

[Sled Puller]

NO, NO, NO. Do not put LE 607 in that transmission.
Are you sure Roy said that? If I remember right, LE even said not to use this oil in the NV 4500.

Gene

 

[LarryB]

Does LE make a recomended oil for the NV4500? If not then what should I use? Amsoil?

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1972 Chinook class C with 96/215 5sp http://fostertruck.com/cummins

 

[Sled Puller]

Quote from the past:
Joe,
You asked me what oil I thought was best for the NV4500. If you are in warr. , then you better use the Dodge oil. However Amsoil and LE have oil in the transmissions and have no problems.
Sincerely, Kevin.

Have you changed your mind Kevin?

Hope this helps.
Gene

 

[Oil Man]

MGM,
You are right when you quoted me. No the oil is not a GL-4 and because of that it is not recommended in the NV-4500. I and LE will tell you that if you are in warranty you must use the GL-4 ONLY type of oil. Why? because the mfg of the trans calls for only a GL-4 and we cannot tell you to use something that is different from what the mfg says. I also know that there are lots of transmissions that have the Amsoil and the LE oil in them and are doing fine.

No I have not changed my mind about weather you should use the Factory oil wile in warranty (you should use a GL-4). As you quoted me I still say the same thing that you posted above. In my last post I simply stated that the 607 has a buffer package that does not allow the sulfur package to attack the light metals and that on the back of the Technical Data Bulletin it says it can be used with bronze or light metals.

CCollar,
When you e-mail LE about the NV-4500 I can tell you what the response will be if you talk to the tech guys. They are VERY politically correct and only go by Specs. If you ask them if they have a GL-4 they will tell you no. They will not even try and give you another answer. They know that we use the GL-5 with a buffer package and it's fine but they will only tell you what you ask and will not vary from that question or offer any other information. If you wish I can send you the Technical Data Bulletin on the 607 that talks about the GL-5 and it's use for Bronze gears and bushings. This tells us that it can be used where light metals are found. The LE tech guys will not give out that information.

Sincerely, Kevin

 

[Sled Puller]

Thank You for clearing that up Kevin. I think I just misread it.
Now, think about this.
Lets say brand "x" is known by all to be better than brand "f" (factory). Seeing the damage "f" has done to my trans, I can not tell anyone to purchase it again. Warranty or no.
By the time the warranty is up, the trans is trashed with brand "f". It is too late to put a REAL oil in it. Oil will not replace lost metal. With brand "x" the trans may live well beyond warranty, which Dodge never intended anyway.
You guys don't hesitate to bomb the engine, but 5qts of oil scares you!

Kevin, what have you seen in your trans with the factory fill? Or do you have an auto?

Everyone drain their 5spd! Let us know what you find! And then go ask Dodge "WHY IS THIS OIL $22 A QT, AND I HAVE ALL THIS METAL FLOATING IN IT?
I personally would not/did not leave that Dodge oil in there. It was out at 26,000. I think it should be dumped on the showroom floor!

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1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled
Member of TDR,LIC-ROC,GLTDR,NRA

 

[Oil Man]

MGM,
I believe I've said it before and it's not getting any less painfull, My ex-wife got the truck. So now I don't have a stick or an auto. Sorry. If I had a NV-4500 I would put the stock oil in for break-in metals and then change it to a better oil. I personally would use the LE 607. Others might not agree but you asked for my opinion.

Sincerely, Kevin

 

[Oil Man]

Hi guys,
Maybe I can clear up this issue on the NV-4500 trans.
The NV-4500 calls for an GL-4 oil. A GL-4 oil has about 1/2 the sulfur/phos anti wear additive as a GL-5 does. The LE 607 is a GL-5. The mfg is asking for a lesser amount of sulfur/phos becasue of the possibility of the sulfur attacking the light metals in the trans. LE 607 has been used in this application for many years with no problems at all because of the buffer package that they use in the 607 product. It basicly keeps the sulfer in check and does not have an effect on the light metals.

This is a quote from the back of the Technical Data Bulletin of the 607 "Use in differentials and transmissons (except those requiring non-ep pur mineral oil) in over-the-road and stop-n-go fleets and off highway equipment. Use in all heavily-loaded industrial enclosed gears. Especially appropriate for heavy donstruction equipment and farm machinery where service is severe. Should be used where drain periods may be longer than normal due to equipment being away from home terminals or difficult access. For use in worm gearboxes and in gearboxes that have bronze gears and thrust washers which require extreme pressure gear oil. Especially appropriate for bowl mills, pellet mills, rock and coal crushers, machine tool gearboxes, gear heads, soy bean oil extractors and other industrial applications.

Because of the buffer package in the 607 I believe that Roy was right in recommending the 607.

I hope this helps
Sincerely, Kevin

 

[CCollar-OLD]

I love this board! A wealth of information and opinions just waiting to be tapped.

Great information Kevin. Thanks.

I have emailed LE and asked the question. When I receive their answer (which I suspect will be identical to Kevin's), I will post it here.

Craig

 

[Sled Puller]

Merry Christmas! Back to the top for old times sake!
Gene

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Two technical points that may be worth adding, since Gene pulled this thread up.
1. There are linings on the brass (?-they are dark reddish brown) synchro rings. The linings look like auto trans clutch lining, and I don't know what lube will help them work better vs. hurt them--on the bottle, the Mopar/Castrol 75-85 lube says it was specially developed for the NV4500.
2. Standard Trans (800-std-tran) offers the Castrol Syntorq LT (for low temperature) at $54 per gallon. One gallon, not 5 qt, is the amount needed for the NV4500.
3. Some TDR members report good results with other lubes. Use whatever you want, since Std. Trans. has all the parts you might need to rebuild it later. #ad

 

[Sled Puller]

Joe,
You just had to put that last line in, didn't you?
One more time, the MT-1 rating addresses these synchro rings.
Amsoil Series 2000 75w-90 meets these specs,and surpasses the factory lube in protection. It in no way voids your Dodge warranty.
It has been in mine for 2 years now, running just fine.
If you want the longest life out of your 5spd that is possible, I highly recommend the Amsoil.
There is a bonus: For once, the better product is less expensive, under $10 a quart.

So explain something. Standard Trans sells the Castrol for $13. 50 a quart.
Dodge sells it for $22 a quart or more.
That bothers me.
#ad
back at ya Joe!! #ad

 

[Timinator]

Amsoil does make a GL-4 oil. I don't have a standard trans, just an auto, but I have used the GL-4 in marine engine lower units with very good results.

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'95 2500 SLT ClubCab, automatic, 3. 54 LSD

 

[drawson]

I started using AmsOil GL-4 in my trans. At the first stop sign on a cold morning it was hard to get it into 2nd. Changed over to Ser 2000 GL-5 and the problem is gone. I have even just sent in an oil analysis on the trans gear lube.

Gene tou must have had a very bad or very good christmas bring to get everyone going again. I hope it was the latter.

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EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, Rad fan removed, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

 

[StephenDelany]

I refilled my NV 4500 recently with an oil that exactly matched the called for requirement and description of Castrol Syntorq, but I didn't have to spend $100. 00 to get it.
Take a close look at Red Line MT-90. It is a 100% Synthetic, GL-4 Rated, Manual Transmission Specific, super high-quality gearbox lube.
Been running it now for about 3000 miles and the shifting is smooth, the gears are quiet, and the driver is confident and happy!

 

[JJW_ND]

I was really cocerned about all this GL-5 and yellow metals in my 96 when it was new. Everyone I talked to said is was related to oil temps i. e. , Temps over 200 and the GL-5 would "eat" the soft metals. Ran Amsoil for 150k miles. Changed every 30K. Every change of oil sampled. Had Trans Oil temp guage for 120K of those miles. Never seen temp go over 190 degrees. Truck pulled very hard... . hard enough to loose 5th gear three times. Replace trans with new and sent core to OH Trans shop. Rebuilder told me normal wear and tear and no oil related or syncro problems.

That trans shifted much better with 150K then this new one at 30k.

If you live in TX and pull 30K with your 300HP Dodge 5sp on a regular basis... . I might worry about GL5 lubes. For the rest... Put in what ever your confortable with.

jjw
ND