Here I am

Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lessons learned !

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Trim is peeling, any ideas?

2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission play in steering box

Status
Not open for further replies.
We hitched up the toybox last Friday and set off to Kennedy Meadows weighing in right at 20000# with full fluids, gear, and motorcycles. This was the first time to this location which is in the South end of the Sierra's and has a notorious tight and turning grade called 9 mile canyon which climbs 4000' in the 9 miles between desert floor and the treeline. On this trip I learned a couple of things.



First, the Cummins can overheat. Not on normal interstate grades though, as we were easily doing 65 across the 100 degree desert with AC on and running at about 200 on the temp guage and 180 on the transmission. However, when it came to 9 mile canyon, I did not think to turn off the AC. I pulled ahead of our friends in thier class A and was going to show him just how great this CTD runs, and I think I overdid it. I tried to run the grade in 2nd gear, and the transmission started heating fast, eventually ending up at 280 and then all of the lights came on at once. Trans temp light first, then the engine temp shot up to 240 almost instantly, and this is in the middle of an 8% section with S-turns and no shoulder. I immediately recognized the danger so I stopped in place and cranked the heater, then dropped to 1st gear and chugged my way up the rest of the hill. Both the transmission and water temp cooled down to normal temps very quickly in this mode. I surely hope no permanent damage was done, and based on how it has run since I don't think it did. It was surprising to me how quickly the temps went from normal to outrageous, seeming to feed off the other and increase in a sharp curve.



Second lesson, same grade just 2 minutes later. Now that the temps are back to normal and my buddy in the class A is way ahead of us, I start smelling something funny. I glance over the guages and notice that the FP is 0 ! So again we stop in the middle of the road on this nasty grade and pop the hood. My vinyl FP line and 1/4" vinyl sheath had melted all the way through by rubbing against one of the brake lines coming from the proportioning valve. Luckily I used a needle valve in the installation and one burnt arm later the leak was stopped. BTW, even with a snubber and a barely open needle valve, that leak must have been 1/2 gallon per minute - quite a bit more than I would have expected.



I learned a few things on this trip, and it surely could have been worse. I'm not sure that I will attempt that 9 mile canyon again without a better transmission/exhaust brake. Going down the grade was as exhausting as riding the dirt bike through the technical forest trails, but I think that mama will buy into the transmission upgrade after that trip. :D



BTW - anyone know where to get a pre-fabbed SS FP line quickly ?
 
Last edited:
Shoulda gotten the 6speed sounds like... ...

Yeah the cummins can get hot, I drive a volvo OTR truck and it has the N-14 cummins and even on a mild load and reg. grade, it gets up to the 200 or so mark.....



I just bought and installed the Jacobs E-brake. Cummins had it for $665 but I had it taken to another truck dealer who got it from the cummins dealer and I bought it from that truck place for $55 less!! ($610)



Install was very good, took me 3 hours. Just running around solo and trying it out, it seems to have about 50% more engine braking just by doing that.



I am buying a toybox in a few weeks. a Desert fox 28' I might not be at 20K but close... . Had to upgrade the POS hitch that came with this to a class 5 and I also bought the Hensley hitch at



http://www.hensleymfg.com/



It was $2840 but it completely eliminates sway and after it is installed, it is so easy to hook up since the WD bars are included in the main unit. they don't have to be taken off. I have been told it makes a TT feel like a 5th wheel. Just looking over your post, you don't say wheather it is a 5th or not... . Mine wil be a TT so I got that hitch..... but anyway, a Jacobs brake is good, it uses a pin on the ECM of the engine to "see" where your throttle is so no more micro switches to adjust.....
 
Summit has prefab ss an-4 lines that come with fittings to go to 1/8 NPT. PM me if you need the part number.



Needle valve worked though!

I think more than a few of us thank Bill Fleming more than a few times for the idea of needle valve shutoffs in fluid lines.



Overkill all installations or as my wife so lovingly calls it "the Bob Weis way"



You might want to check with transmission rebuilders, but as I read it a transmission fluid change might be a good idea.



As I understand it the stock transmission does not lock up per se in 2nd gear. Right?, Wrong? I think that is why it cooled down in 1st gear (notice I said I think?, could be wrong here too)

That's why the rebuilders advertise that their trannys will lock up in 2nd gear.



Exhaust brakes are a good thing on the way down.



BUT, however, regardless of the lessons, you were smart enough to get it down in one piece. "Adversity builds CHARACTER!"



Bob Weis
 
Eric - the toybox that I pull is a Nomad Rampage 33' 5er and has a dry weight of 9200#. That doesn't seem like much until you load it up with toys for primitive camping which means 1000# of water alone. The only issue I have had so far is the nearly 14' height of the rig and trying to pull into USFS campgrounds. I looked at the Hensley before I decided to stay with the 5er and just upgraded my hitch.



Bob - you are right, we (especially me) do owe Bill a thank you for the mere suggestion of using a needle valve at the FP tap - thanks Bill !



As far as I know the auto transmission only locks in 3rd and OD, and a new VB is necessary to get 2nd locked. That may have saved me in this situation, at least that's what I was preaching to my wife the rest of the way up the grade.



What's your guys gut feel for the cause of the overheat ? Was it the AC, the slipping TC, my race blood trying to make a record time up the hill, or maybe a combination of ? The only thing I found awkward was the temps going up so fast. Almost like the hot transmission made the engine heat as well, or vise-versa.



And worth mentioning here is the new Prodigy brake controller that I used for the first time on this trip. I'm sure that the Jordans work just as well, but this thing is far superior to the Voyager that I was using. It made the downhill a whole lot easier !
 
i think the trans temp did it to you. i climbed a summit by Yosemite national park and the trans temp went up very fast then the engine temp climbed to meet it. rebuilt the trans due to a shutter in o/d (torque converter)no problems since the rebuild ken
 
Damon, I would suggest that you drop the trans. pan and change the fluid and filter immediately, as well as oil and filter. You definitley over did it. The trans. oil is toast and you need to get it out of there along with fresh fluid and filter. Same for the engine oil and filter but not as urgent. Hopefully no lasting damage was done. I would also check and clean the radiators & intercooler in the front. You may want to consider some type of water wetter for the radiatior if you decide to endure those conditions again in the future.
 
I will follow that advice, especially since we are heading out in 10 days for a 3000 mile trip from So Cal to Northern Idaho and back with the trailer. Luckily I had just changed the engine oil, so it's properties should not have been too badly depleted at 240 degrees, but I will probably go synthetic all around before we leave.
 
I agree with rfrazier

Look real close with a flash light, on the fan side of the radiator towards the drivers side. You will probably find a oily tar like substance coating the radiator. Its emited from the crankcase breather and gets plastered on the radiator by the fan. You will have to remove the radiator and have it steam cleaned to get this stuff of. I had 30,000 miles on my truck and about 40% of my radiator was plugged with this tar. Merv
 
Overheating

Blueridge Mountains of NC. Overheated to 240 3 times. Turned heater wide open with no results. Pulled over and let it cool when possible on the curvey mountain roads. Transmission finally pegged the needle at 250 when I got where I was going on a very steep curvey dirt road. Only towing a small MT John Deere tractor. Trailer and tractor about 5,500 lbs. Hope I didn't do any damage. Changed the thermostat and it is running much cooler according to the guage. Haven't towed yet. Will change oil and transmission fluid to synthetic this weekend.

Greg
 
On this over heat thing,



Has anyone put a water mister (microjet) spray on their transmission air cooler yet?



I was looking in the Northern catalog and a 15 gallon water sprayer tank, pump, and hand wand (would have to be changed to a microjet line and sprayer) ready to connect to 12 volt source is $100. Cheaper than changing transmission fluid and filter due to overheat. Cheaper than fans, and some that have tried fans on the transmission cooler are not too thrilled with the results. A horton fan is pretty pricey and not made for 2001, 2002 CTD.



I think a microjet is like 4 gallons per hour average. I think you can get them as high as 30 gallons per hour. You would be able to run full water about as long as the fuel last at highway speeds with the 4 gallon per hour.



A switch in the cab for when you need it (in my case backing the 5er) or hill climbing, or hot southwest runs, or ... .



BUT, will it do what we want it to do? Has anyone actually tried it and tested it?



Would the spray also help cool the radiator, intercooler and ac condenser which would be a plus. Winter just drain the sprayer system. You could expand it to cover the whole front radiator with one switch and just the transmission with another switch. Possibilities are endless.



What about the water mist that gets through to the engine? Would it hurt it, warp it, corrode the xxxxx (starter comes to mind), screw up the serpentine belt?



Ideas?



Thinking out loud,



Bob Weis
 
Ol Ball Buster got ya...hehe

well ol ball buster got another flatlander LOL... can't tell ya how many rig I have seen stopped in the middle of the road on that section... .



The four lane section just below that is my test track. LOL



you didn't even try to go over the top did you
 
Our 1996 3500 (V-10/47RE) would experience high coolant temps in low-speed stop-and-go towing of our 13,500 lb 5ver during Texas summers. I cured this by doing the following 2 mods:



1. I installed a B&M Supercooler transmission cooler upstream of the factory towing package radiator tank and oil-to-air coolers. The purpose of this added cooler was to remove much of the automatic transmission heat load before it was dumped into the engine coolant by the radiator tank cooler. Engine coolant and transmission fluid temperatures both dropped markedly.



2. I replaced the stock 224* V-10 thermal fan clutch with an aftermarket 205* thermal fan clutch.



With the stock 200* V-10 thermostat, maximum coolant temps dropped from 230* (260* redline on the V-10) before the mods to 205* after.



I offer this to give some food for thought. With the 6-speed, we've never seen a coolant temperature higher than 195-200* on our Cummins HO towing the same 5ver in Texas summers.



Rusty
 
It's amazing how once you scare the wife, buying parts for the truck to make it safer is much easier. I overheated the brakes on the truck and trailer going down an unfamiliar pass in the Sierra's a little quickly. The wife bought the E-brake when we got back. I'm getting ready for a transfer to Corpus Christi, Tx from the Sacramento area in 2 weeks. I'm a little apprehensive about the whole thing because of the summertime heat. I have changed all the fluids, installed a Mag Hytec cover on the rear end along with synthetic fluid. Just basically serviced the be-jesus out of the truck and 5th wheel. It's good to hear stories like this to remind that the truck isn't bulletproof when pushed beyond it's limits. I plan on taking easy and enjoy the drive. Racing up a mountain with the trailer isn't gonna happen on this trip:rolleyes:
 
Rusty,



The B&M was a stack cooler?, with or without fans (manual / or automatic with a sensor)? and you mounted it where?



I assume AN-8 in and out of the cooler to maintain transmission line size. A great tap would be in place of the braided SS from the end of the hot line to the water heat exchanger input port. Would add a little fluid as well. Pretty soon changing the transmission fluid will necessitate getting ATF in 5 gallon buckets, lol (actually "only" 20 quarts).



I am setting up to tow about the same weight in about a year.



Bob
 
I've heard that BD sells a transmission cooler w/fan that mounts under the truck to take the heat away from the engine compartment. It runs off a thermostat or manual switch or both. Anyone have this cooler and if so how much did it help the temps (I think earthroamer's Dodge has one of these also)?



Bill
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by rweis

The B&M was a stack cooler?

Conventional fin-type cooler, headers on each end (1/2" NPT female connection ports). As I recall, it was of stack construction.

With or without fans (manual / or automatic with a sensor)?

Without - see next response for reason why.

You mounted it where?

The mounting holes on the cooler are almost a perfect match for the hood latch mounting holes on the channel support. This mounts the cooler centered ahead of the A/C condenser right behind the grille. Therefore, when the new lower temp fan clutch was on (which was frequent in stop-and-go or low-speed conditions), it was pulling air right through the new trans cooler.

I assume AN-8 in and out of the cooler to maintain transmission line size.

Aeroquip 1/2" NPT male-to 1/2" hose fittings and Aeroquip 1/2" hydraulic hose rated for the pressures, temps and fluid involved. The 1996 had a 1/2" rubber hose section just prior to the bottom (inlet) fitting of the radiator tank cooler, so I cut the stock rubber hose and used Aeroquip 1/2" barb-to-1/2" barb fittings to tap the new supply and return lines into the stock hose.



Rusty
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by damon



BTW - anyone know where to get a pre-fabbed SS FP line quickly ?



I bought my SS hoses from a local shop that made Hydraulic hoses in house. Made them while I waited.



Call around you might be surprised!
 
I was suprised when I called around to find that no hydraulic shops, engine shops, or even marine shops would make a line with such small fittings. It seems like they were all geared toward Cat size hydrualics and could only suggest that I find a speed shop with that type of line.



Thanks to rweis I got the part # and ordered a 6' oil pressure line kit from Summit and they were able to do next day shipping.



thanks for the idea though :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top