Any new information since these posts I found on another thread?
Bart Timothy
Registered: May 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 159
More clutch choices is a very good thing and the Southbend ETH clutch has some features I really like. If I'm understanding what HeberRam has said, the full 360 degree ceramic lining sounds very good. I never understood why, in the face of a shortage of lining area, a manufacturer would opt to use "pads" or "pucks" and loose all the surface area between them. The ETH/DEE clutch suffers from lack of surface area, among other things, and needs all it can get. However, the Southbend clutch is still a Luk.
The Mcleod over comes the lining area issue by adding another disk and pressure plate. In theory it should hold more torque than others because of this increase in lining area, and real world tests appear to bear that out. Problem is there's simply not enough room inside the bell housing to have all that machinery along with a sprung hub, let alone enough space for disengagement. So Mcleod users can suffer from "neutral grind noise" (which wouldn't bother me), with the possible main shaft breakage because of an unsprung hub. Disengagement and problems getting into gear caused by warpage of the center pressure plate, among other things, along with the possible resulting wear and tear on syncros can be a problem.
The DRE Sachs increases lining area if the flywheel is changed to a pre '93, as Joe suggests. An increase of almost a half inch in diameter of area, or around 30%, can be added this way. Joe offers a choice of brass or organic linings, and three clamp pressure rates above stock The organic lining along with the lowest spring weight will be a vast improvement over stock. With a 50% increase in clamping force, the pedal effort on my clutch is greater than stock, but not at all objectionable. Best of all it's a Sachs. Look at drawson's pictures of the Southbend 5 speed Sachs clutch and compare that with a Luk and you can see there's a big difference in quality and heft. The disk in the DRE is out of some medium duty truck application, well sprung, quite heavy duty, and takes advantage of every suare inch of surface area avialable, although I can't tell how it compares in heft to drawson's 5 speed Southbend disk by looking at the pictures. Centering the pressure plate on the flywheel during installation is a non issue, I think.
In the final analysis, it's probably "different clutches for different folks", and who chooses what clutch probably boils down to total cost, payment terms, support, marketing hype, personalities, etc. , as much as any other reason. I really like my DRE Sachs, even though it's over kill for my truck, and I'm certainly not "eating my heart out" for not having a Southbend. The folks at Southbend were very friendly and knowledgeable but they had nothing to offer at the time I purchased. Had they had this new clutch available, especially with a Sachs pressure plate, my choice would have been lot tougher, but I'd still have went with the DRE because of Joe's support and installation.
Bart
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03-01-2001 06:20 PM
HeberRam
Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Heber, Utah
Posts: 409
Bart... Good post. You and I and others are always willing to R&D products, be it injectors, fueling boxes, clutches, propane etc. We may agree on some things and disagree on others. That's whats great about the TDR forum. We can share our own personal experiences with other members so they can decide which route to go. I will continue to ( as long as the wife doesn't know how much I'm spending) to keep R&D new products as they come available. I'm no expert but I demand performance. If you can come up to Ogden this friday at 2:00 at performance Edge, We're going to see what the stage 3 Bully Dogs do on the Dyno.
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03-01-2001 07:02 PM
South Bend Clutch
Registered: Feb 2001
Location: mishawaka, in. u. s.
Posts: 326
Bart, clutch manufactures all have their own theories. Luk's is sound mathematically. When understanding where the most torque is created on two castings with the same outside diameter the mathematical formula goes like this. You measure from the inside diameter 2/3 towards the outside and then measure the surcomfrance from that point, this gives you the "means" or where the most torque is given. The larger the means the more toque that can be created. This is what Luk has done with many of their clutch's not just the Dodge. The clutch is perfact for stock units, all we did was add a much higher quality material, alter the pressure plate a little and we feel that we have a setup that will take care of 90% of the rammers without lots of $$$$ out of pocket.
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03-02-2001 01:25 AM
Arcticat
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: Vermont
Posts: 198
Like Bart, I couldn't be happier with my DRE sachs. I feel more comfortable knowing that the guy who developed the unit actuall uses the product in his own CTD ram with over 500hp at the rearwheels. THATS what I call R&D. Price was not an object on my decision. I have well over $30,000 in the truck, it seems like a pretty stupid time to start worrying about $200. I chose what I felt was the best option FOR ME at the time.
As a side note, I don't know anything about clutch construction, but the OEM LUK disk seems incredibly underbuilt in the way the hub is attached to the rest of it. It looks to me like the friction material and the metal it is riveted to would just be sheared right off the disk hub by the torque some people are making! I would be nervous about using it as a high performance unit, no matter what facing was put on it.
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03-02-2001 01:47 AM
South Bend Clutch
Registered: Feb 2001
Location: mishawaka, in. u. s.
Posts: 326
Arcticat. if you look at the top of the page the clutch assy. we are speaking of is a 2001. I don't think you have a 2001? In order to use the Sach unit on the 2001 the flywheel must be changed $$. I do offer the Sach unit for the 5sp as illustrated. Joe has done a Great Job and between all of us clutch suppliers, with hard work, we hope to help the rammers get what they need. Lets try to not make it a compotition. Try to remember that there are alot of differant views pic the one that works for you and go with it "FEELING GOOD ABOUT YOUR CHOICE". Peter
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03-02-2001 02:17 AM
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