Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump answers from DC

[Sregorb]

All,

OK I need your help. Below is a letter I've drafted for DC to see if we can get some official movement on this issue. Please review and tell me what you think. I'm sending out soon so let me know fast and hope for the best!!!



June 14, 2003

Daimler-Chrysler

Customer Assistance-United States

P. O. Box 21-8004

Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004

Dear Daimler-Chrysler:

SUBJECT: DODGE RAM LIFT PUMP FAILURES

First I want to congratulate your company on creating an excellent, overall truck! I’m the proud owner of a 2002 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel and have been very happy with my ownership experience thus far.

I’m also a member of the Turbo Diesel Register, an organization that I also noticed you promoted in your brochures as being a respected group of Diesel Ram owners, over 16,000 members! I occasionally write articles for the magazine and provide help on the 2nd Gen column when needed. Usually this “work” is easy when I spot a frequent topic being brought up by several different members. This allows for trending data to be gathered and the most talked about issues tend to be addressed by Dodge as a TSB shortly afterwards if the concern is verified or data is presented to the contrary if it’s an untrue perspective.

The reason I’m writing is in hopes that we can get an issue identified (if it’s not already), addressed, and corrected once and for all. There has been a repeated trend over several years now concerning the lift pump utilized in the 2500/3500 Cummins Diesel application. The concern seems to center around the lift pump being located in an out-of-spec location within the engine compartment which is a considerable distance from the source of the fuel in the tank. Several members are paying out of their own pocket to research fixes that they hope to share with others to extend the life of the stock equipment, or when necessary replace the equipment with a proven aftermarket setup that will be more reliable. Most of these setups tend to use a secondary “pusher pump” located close to the tank feeding the existing lift pump, thus alleviating the burden on the stock lift pump. The only reason this has gone to this length is, from our perspective, the lift pump failure rate is extremely high. When you figure in that the demographic you seek for this particular product line is going to be the hard-working, reliability-is-key, person that will lose time and money when a vehicle is out of operation I would hope that any concern brought up by multiple parties would be followed up on immediately.

Any information you can provide on the issue, it’s addressing or troubleshooting work in progress, or any released data concerning this will be greatly appreciated. Rest assured it will be disseminated upon receipt to the members of the TDR via website (fastest means available) and if possible I’ll include for publication in a future issue. I’ll send this in both written and electronic form for your consideration. Thank you for your help in answering this frequent topic of discussion!

Sincerely,

Brian Rogers

 

[klaybus]

LP Article

Brian

That's an excellent letter to DC. I hope with that letter we might finally get somewhere with the LP issues that are haunting every 1998. 5-2002 owner. Do the 2003 owners have the same LP issues as we do?



Clay

 

[Sregorb]

Good question, I had thought of that issue too so I posted over on the 03 owner forum for and answer too... . I'll incorporate the answer back here on this thread too.



Brian

 

[Sticks]

Excellent job. Now if all 16k members would copy the letter, tailor it to their own vehicle and send it in, that would get someones attention.



Were it me, I would help then understand a little more by hitting them where it hurts.



"When a lift pump fails, often there is not a noticeable difference in the operation of the engine, and the VP44 injection pump begins to overwork itself and will also fail. This additional pump failure is being caused by the failure of the original lift pump. When this $1500 injection pump fails under warranty, that can be quite an expensive known loss for any corporation, given the number of vehicles in operation within the warranty period. "



Or something like that. I am still drinking my coffee.

 

[Pit Bull]

Brian, it looks good. Interested in the answer. Thanks for doing this.

 

[klaybus]

To answer my own question on LP pressures on the 2003

According to Rod at WildCat Diesel..... The LP doesn't appear to have improved! Click this link.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62540&highlight=2003+Lift+Pump



Clay

 

[mgoncalves]

I think that is a great letter with very good points. However, I don't believe you are addressing the right company. The lift pump location and part source is/was in Cummins' hands. I suppose if DC gets hounded enough, then maybe they will get after Cummins. Who knows??



I was surprised to see in the service manual for Case 24 valve engines, the exact same LP setup as what is in our trucks. To make it worse, in a backhoe the tank is down low on the machine. The 24 valve in Case applications is just barely getting out into the field, and already they have lift pumps going out, causing hard starts and low power.



Maybe Case will come up with a fix??



Matt

 

[Motorhead]

I "believe" I have seen the lift pump mounted even higher on the '03s . Doesn't make much sense!! I'm 50 now and I remember when I was a kid and saw a guy with a flathead V8 Ford, with the hood up, trying to get fuel to the carb. My Dad told me THEN that fuel pumps make better "Pushers" than they make "Pullers". He said the fuel pump mounted high on the flathead V8 was a real problem then. HELLO... ..... we're in another CENTURY!!!!!

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I had a Dodge service tech that was very good with the Cummins tell me more than a year ago that Dodge and Cummins were fighting about the lift pumps back then, so they definantely know about it. What about the Frieghtliners with the ISB or the ford F-650's with the ISB, are they using the same lift pumps? Seems to me that their tanks would be even lower from the pump.

 

[PRout]

Great letter & well worded.



If nothing else, it documents an attempt to work out a potential safety issue (loss of power while towing can be very bad in the wrong situation), and it is happening way too often.



They have again been informed that this problem has been well documented by a wide forum of customers, and are awaiting a fix to their negligent engineering.



It doesn't make sense to include expensive, heavy-duty transfer-case, dana 80, cummins diesel engine, etc. , and have all that being compromised by an inferior lift pump mounting location or part. Especially when that part is relatively cheap in comparison to the cost of its failures.



It was not a threat, but after reading about the incidents for a few years, they are coming closer to a class action suit, and again, they have been kept well informed in the process.



It will be nice to see if they care about their reputation of building reliable equipment and/or keeping customers/sales.



(Actually we already know what their reputation is, but this is another attempt to change that. )



Can you imagine if they actually came up with a reasonable fix for this? Talk about a major sway in customer confidence & satisfaction. It could be monumental.



Just my opinion.

 

[Sregorb]

RESPONSE-Please help by responding back

All,

OK here's the response back from DC:



Dear Brian:

Thank you for the recent e-mail regarding your 2002 Dodge Ram 2500.

DaimlerChrysler does not have any available information regarding your

request.

Thank you.



For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the

following information:

REFERENCE NUMBER: 11355707



Sincerely,

Robert Clark

Senior Staff Representative

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

///end of response///



So here's what I think we need to do. EVERYONE that has had a lift pump problem or has a concern about the lift pump application PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL OR LETTER TO:

Daimler-Chrysler

Customer Assistance-United States

ATTN: Robert Clark

REF: 11355707

P. O. Box

21-8004

Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004

OR

Send an email by going to www.dodge.com, contact us, click on email for Customer Assistance-United States and use the reference number 11355707.



I'm not looking for everyone to write a monster letter here. I just need you to let them know what kind of numbers of folks are having this problem, the frequency of failures, or that there is swaying concern over the failures. Make sure to use the reference number so that we all can capture the paper trail!



THIS WILL ONLY WORK IF THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO SEND A QUICK NOTICE TO THE PEOPLE THAT CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE!!!!



Just for our own tracking on the TDR if you respond PLEASE reply with a quick "I sent one". Thanks so much for your support in this issue.



Brian Rogers

 

[Sregorb]

Please spread the word for widest dissemination also! If what we suspect is true, this is not just a TDR issue... ...



Brian

 

[Mingoglia]

I agree with the suggestion about all (or some) of us either sign our name to that letter or write our own... maybe if we all did it at the same time they would take notice... BTW, as I type this my truck is sitting in the parking lot with a dead lift pump. I'm still procrastinating getting out in the 115 degree weather to fix it... pressures real low (0 psi under load)... but isn't completely dead yet.

 

[Sregorb]

This is our chance. It can be addressed or it can die here.

I'm hoping we can drum this into a big enough issue to get it solved vice what we do now. The forums are excellent but with certain issues we've seemed to beat the dead horse over and over and over and... ... we never seem to take that next step necessary to press for a fix. Sure some of us are making fixes, (and doing a great job of it!). But it's all been unofficial and out of our pockets and not from the source of the problem. I'm hoping now is the time for the lift pump to take a turn under the microscope OFFICIALLY and at the source... .



Brian

 

[Mingoglia]

What address are you sending your mail to at DC? I'm all for sending a letter... I think we need to wait a week or so and get everyone we can on the TDR to get a letter (or copy yours with your permission) ready for DC... and send them at the same time!!! ... to make sure it gets their attention. I tried calling them a couple of weeks ago but hung up after being on hold for 30 minutes...

 

[Pit Bull]

Brian, here is what I sent. I stole parts of your write-up. I sent it on the www.dodge.com web site to USA Customer assistance. I included my truck VIN and all of my information feeling that would let them know I was an owner and serious about this recurring problem. I will post whatever I get back from them.



Ref. # 11355707 This question concerns my vehicle and several thousand others that belong to members of the Turbo diesel Registry. The reason I’m writing is in hopes that we can get an issue addressed, and corrected once and for all. There has been a repeated trend over several years now concerning the lift pump (Fuel transfer pump) utilized in the 2500/3500 Cummins Diesel application. I am a member of the failed lift pump club and have experienced this lift pump failure on my 2000 3500 Dodge CTD. I how own a 2002 3500 CTD and would like to know that this design problem has been corrected. I am finding that several members of the Turbo diesel registry are paying out of their own pocket to research fixes that they hope to share with others to extend the life of the stock equipment, or when necessary replace the equipment with a proven aftermarket setup that will be more reliable. I personally "will not" and feel I should not have to modify anything to make it work correctly and not fail. The only reason members of the TDR have gone to this length is, from our perspective, the lift pump failure rate is extremely high. When you figure in that the demographic you seek for this particular product line is going to be the hard-working, reliability-is-key, person that will lose time and money when a vehicle is out of operation I would hope that any concern brought up by multiple parties would be followed up on immediately. Any information you can provide on the issue, it’s addressing or troubleshooting work in progress, or any released data concerning this will be greatly appreciated. Rest assured it will be disseminated upon receipt to the members of the TDR via website (fastest means available) Thank you for your help in answering this frequent topic of discussion!

Sincerely,

 

[Sregorb]

Great! That's one. Next?

Oh, and feel free to use whatever or just plain copy my first letter and put your names on it, just remember to add in the reference number.....



Brian

 

[Scott Rosendahl]

Originally posted by Sregorb

Great! That's one. Next?

Oh, and feel free to use whatever or just plain copy my first letter and put your names on it, just remember to add in the reference number.....



Brian

I just submitted one online.

 

[Sregorb]

There's two... .



B

 

[rashwor]

I just submitted mine on-line.

I had to go out and get the last 8 digits of the VIN... don't have it memorized! Maybe this will get us some help.