Lift pump replacement?

[Paychk]

Would anyone know about these?



http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/6000_pump.html



Seem like a good alternative... especially the marine diesel pumps... prices don't seem to bad ether.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Someone may want to correct me here but I believe that our "stock" fuel filters and most aftermarket such as the Racor have a wide range of micron ratings, but most are 10 micron... at least that is what I recall.

So, the larger micron rating of 450 is a tad large. It won't "really" be a bad thing since the stock fuel filter is still in the circuit and will catch the small stuff.

The next item is the psi/gph rating.

It doesn't quote the psi variation that we consider when we install a lift pump or helper/pusher pump.

In the case of the VE pump, we'd like to maintain at least 10psi at WOT and more like 12-15 would be better for the guys who are really pushing their pumps...

Our stock pump in new condition usually runs around 10 psi at idle maybe a tad more and, should hold a steady 5-6 at WOT... . that is too low for the wild 'N crazy guys among us... .

When I replaced my stocker just recently I had about 8psi at idle and at WOT I could draw the pressure gauge down to virtually "0" psi... not good.

The only saving grace is the VE itself has an internal "vane style supply pump" that can draw it's own fuel ... within limitations of course... so that means that we may see "0" psi at WOT on a guage but the vane pump is helping out a bit and doing some of the drawing... which it should not really have to do if it can be helped.



All this should be kept in context though... . if your supply pressure/volume drops as you open the throttle the pump has to not only work harder; in addition, the supply side of our VE pump needs to hold a certain pressure which in turn has a direct impact on the high pressure side (head) that feeds the nozzles... . we need every psi we can get going to the injectors.



I'd look a bit further for a helper pump but that's ONLY my opinion of course... .



pb... .

 

[JLEONARD]

Yes the 450 microns is HUGE... more like a screen. Will keep the rocks out of your fuel pump.

Our on engine filters are probably in the 7 to 10 micron range.

On my marine Cummins I run a Racor 10 micron, then the on engine filter is 7 micron.

Anybody know how many gph the VE is capable of moving thru our fuel lines?

I know a 6bta marine rated at 370 horsepower can burn 19 gph at full throttle. A 270 is 14. 4 gph, a 450 hp C series is 24.

So assuming similar efficiency, those should be numbers that could be used as starting point to find a fuel supply pump.

Add some for the return perhaps, but the VE doesn't return much... maybe 5 gph?

So you need a pump that can maintain roughly 6 psi at one of those flow rates.

For example the 6065 pump (20 gph at 6 psi) from that site should be ok if you are in the 270 hp range. (if their numbers are reliable for diesel)

Also realize that our supply lines are rather small especially when you consider the fittings... or a partially clogged draw tube... . so if anybody's looking to upgrade their fuel supply... don't just buy a pump... look at the rest of the plumbing too.

Does this make sense to anyone but me? :-laf

Jay

 

[Greenleaf]

NO... ... ...







When I spoke with the guy that designed and markets the FASS system, he told me that folk get the ide'r that by using his largest capacity/highest flow pump would increase engine perfromance when, in reality, it decreased it. He said that to really upgrade one would have to upgrase ALL the fuel lines not simply bolt on the highest flow pump offered.



The upgrade I have been working with is the industial application of a piston lift pump. She will allow the modified VE injection pump to see a WOT inlet psi of 8 to 10 and about 14/15 at idle speed.



Sure beats seeing your gauge drop to a big round goose egg! Not to mention it's about 1/3 rd the cost of the FASS unit.



Does "THIS" make sense to any'all???



GL

 

[SnoDawg]

Walbro makes a good pump I have dealt with them in the Aircraft world.

 

[DValentine]

A stupid question here, but the electric pump would by pass the mechanical on the block yes/no? Would a guy leave it on the block or is there a plate like the chevy blocks has when bypassing the mechanical.



Idiot savant



Dave

 

[JLEONARD]

Scott,

Knowing that the FASS pump is 95 gph, I don't understand your comments.

Seems to me like the 6065 pump would be better matched... for our application.

The p pumps circulate way more fuel than the VE... hence perhaps the need for 95 gph.

Dave... yes the electric would replace the mech and a cover plate could be installed on the block.

Jay

 

[Greenleaf]

The "other" pump was a 100(+) gph flow rate and he was speaking about the VP powered rigs in terms of performance problems with the larger/higher rated pump on the FASS unit.



The P Pumps have a much larger return line and a return fuel flow control valve. We have a small return line and no valve other than a wee teensy tiney hole to return fuel through.



Other than that I'm outta ideas. I'm guessing the 6065 pump is less than 90+ gph rating???



The Cummins manual lists several piston pump ratings in terms of gph. It's tough to decipher cause many of the pumps are no longer in production and/or have been consolodated. A higher flow piston pump would work for our aplication however the very high flow rate/high psi would/could effect the engine timing. You'd possibly see 28-34 psi inlet pressure to the VE pump.



Again, the P-Pump piston style lift pump is made to work with the higher flow return of the P-Pump. The same would hold true for any electric pump.



GL