Lippert Frames

[HBarlow]

I have recently read on a couple of websites I frequent of frame and suspension weld and component failures occuring on late model fifth wheel trailers built on Lippert frames.

It appears that many RV manufacturers, some of them prominent names in the industry, are outsourcing their frame manufacturing for at least some of their models to Lippert who "builds the frame to our specs. "

Lippert builds a lot of lightweight frames and uses Communist Chinese axles, springs, brakes, bearings, wheels, and tires.

Keystone, Forest River, Mobile Suites, and Thor brands apparently use Lippert for all their frames. Several other manufacturers use Lippert frames for some of their units.

Owners have reported spring perch welds separated from frames, broken spring leaves, frame cracks, and failed wheel bearings.

Here is just one thread from a generic RV website with owners of seveal brands discussing failures they have experienced.

RV Times Discussion - Lippert 5th Wheel Frames

Fifth wheel owners, it might be a good idea to know who built the frame under your trailer and examine it carefully before each trip.

 

[Buffalo]

Harvey,



Thank you, for the post on this subject. My friend just put a deposit down on a brand new Montana fifth wheel in Muskeegon, MI. His brother is planning on going up there from Phoenix to pick it up. I've allerted them to the potential problem.



I got on Montana's website trying to find out if there new trailers are using the Lippert frame & they make no mention, of it. Would you happen to know if they are still using the Lippert frame &, if so, have they upgraded them to a higher quality of construction & materials?



In your opinion, would it be a good idea to back out of this deal. The price is VERY right but, if it is a potential problem, maybe it's not a good idea.



Appreciate your thoughts. My friends will be monitoring your posts.



Joe F.

 

[Buffalo]

Harvey,



Do you have any recommendations for a fifth wheel, automatic slider hitch for a shortbed Duramax? Any suggestions would be quite helpful. None of us have ever had a fifth wheel & we know very little about their idiosyncracies.



Thanks, again.



Joe F.

 

[SWC]

Harvey, thanks for bringing this up. We have a 2004 Keystone Laredo 27RL and Lippert made the frame for our camper. I checked the discussion group you linked and discovered that someone else has had a pin box failure. The dealer we purchased from was no help. The vehicle insurance we deal with covered the repair so the repair was not our expense.

Fortunately we were 2 miles from home when I discovered something was wrong. I often think of the disaster this could have been had this happened away from home.

Stan

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,

Thank you, for the post on this subject. My friend just put a deposit down on a brand new Montana fifth wheel in Muskeegon, MI. His brother is planning on going up there from Phoenix to pick it up. I've allerted them to the potential problem.

I got on Montana's website trying to find out if there new trailers are using the Lippert frame & they make no mention, of it. Would you happen to know if they are still using the Lippert frame &, if so, have they upgraded them to a higher quality of construction & materials?

In your opinion, would it be a good idea to back out of this deal. The price is VERY right but, if it is a potential problem, maybe it's not a good idea.

Appreciate your thoughts. My friends will be monitoring your posts.

Joe F.

Buffalo,

I think it would be inappropriate for me to offer an opinion on what your friend should do. I am not an objective adviser on the subject. In fact I am very biased.

I will speak in generalities. When I was an RV transporter I pulled lots of Keystones, maker of Montana. Maybe 100 of them. I do not admire Keystone products although I read recently that Montana has sold more units than any other for several years. I believe but am not positive that Lippert still manufactures all Keystone frames and uses Chinese running gear. We've seen a few isolated posts on TDR reporting Keystone/Lippert issues but owners are usually reluctant to become too vocal, they prefer to ignore the probem hoping it will go away.

I have looked over stacks of Lippert frames outside Keystone plants. Not impressive.

Your friend might spend some time reading on the NuWa HitchHiker website. NuWa also builds some of their lower end products on Lippert frames but all Champagnes and some DAs including the one I bought are built on high quality Young's Welding frames. Youngs is around the corner from NuWa in Chanute, KS. There is no other RV company that treats their customers with as much respect, courtesy, honesty, and fair prices as NuWa. The CEO, Mike Mitchell, posts on the NuWa Owner's Forum, a privately owned and operated website. It is possible, if your friend is a skilled bargainer, to buy a new HH on a Young's frame for not much more than a Montana.

I would speak by phone with you or your friend but won't go any farther on a public website.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,

Do you have any recommendations for a fifth wheel, automatic slider hitch for a shortbed Duramax? Any suggestions would be quite helpful. None of us have ever had a fifth wheel & we know very little about their idiosyncracies.

Thanks, again.

Joe F.

Buffalo/Joe,

Try this: PopUp Industries: Gooseneck Hitches and Fifth Wheel Towing Products

An old Navy buddy of mine, after hearing me rave about the advantages of Dodge-Cummins trucks, was determined to buy a new SB Ram 3500 in '06 because he wanted to be able to maneuver it easily in shopping center or grocery store parking lots and park it under his carport at home. I couldn't persuade him otherwise.

He bought and uses the Pop-Up Industries RV-5 (I think) and loves it. He's pulled with it for several years now. It is a simple non-mechanical device that you can't forget to operate because there is nothing to operate. It is a typical mid-western values company and product built by a small company right down the street from NuWa in Chanute, KS. The adapter is bulletproof, never fails, never needs lubrication, and is inexpensive to buy.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, thanks for bringing this up. We have a 2004 Keystone Laredo 27RL and Lippert made the frame for our camper. I checked the discussion group you linked and discovered that someone else has had a pin box failure. The dealer we purchased from was no help. The vehicle insurance we deal with covered the repair so the repair was not our expense.
Fortunately we were 2 miles from home when I discovered something was wrong. I often think of the disaster this could have been had this happened away from home.
Stan

I felt some misgivings when I posted the OP expecting that some would be offended by my implied criticism of their choice of RV. No testimony about a product is stronger than one like yours who actually owns one and can confirm the truth.

I shouldn't go out on a limb here criticising Lippert because I haven't owned their products but I've inspected their bare frames sitting on lots outside the RV plants. Their frames are "pre-rusted" before the trailer is ever assembled and some of their welds look like they were done by high school shop students striking their first beads.

The nominal size of the frame rails and cross members are not robust looking. Overall, they look like budget priced material and workmanship.

A fellow TDR member reported here a year or so ago that as he pulled into a country campground one of the spring perches on his trailer separated from the frame on uneven ground and one end of the rear axle swung around under the trailer and the tire ended up under the middle of the trailer. I think that was a Lippert.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Harvey, my Thor Jazz 5er, built in April of 08, has a Dexter chassis and axles.

 

[HBarlow]

I didn't think Dexter manufactured frames. Dexter does manufacture quality axle assemblies with springs and brakes.

I think the "Dexter Axle Group" label refers to the group within Dexter that manufactures the suspension and brake parts but I'm not certain either way.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Back when we were looking at new trailers,I saw that sticker and checked out their website... .

Dexter Chassis Group - Trailer Frames, Slide-outs, Electro-Coating, and Fabrication - HOME

I also thought they were just an axle company, they have been at it for awhile. When it came time to buy, our final two choices were the Jazz and a Wildcat. I had read a bit about Lippert frame issues and that pushed me toward the Jazz and a Dexter chassis. That, and I live about twenty minutes away from the Thor plant in Moreno Valley, which is where they build the Jazz line.



Sam

 

[HBarlow]

Well, I learned something new. I had no idea that Dexter made frames. Does (did) Dexter have a frame plant in the Riverside area? That Thor plant closed a year or year and a half ago IIRC. Several former supervisor/managers of the old Thor plant bought the remains and are now making a toybox, I think.

I delivered a lot of Jazz trailers out of that plant when I was transporting. All the ones I hauled went into BC, AB, or SK as I remember. Also hauled a few Thor FEMA units out of the plant in late 2005 to Baton Rouge.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Harvey, it is still open. Mine was built there in April 08, then an employee group bought it. Here is a newspaper article from July 08

MVP RV erasing signs of Thor at Moreno Valley plant | Business | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California

The new name is MPV RV...

MVP RV

As far as where the frame plant is, don't know, but it might be in Los Angeles. The axles have an old shipping label on them with the Thor plant as a destination and what looks like a return address of L. A.

Sam

 

[MGreer]

Harvey,



The reported axle problem at a campground was reported by me last summer. The post is titled "This Sucks" in the towing section. This is on a Forest River 5er, the frame and axles are definitley Lippert. When they made the repairs they replaced the Chinese made parts with Chinese made parts.

I just got back this weekend from the vacation I couldn't complete last year. Everything went OK this time, the trip was about 1600 miles.

 

[MGreer]

Harvey,



While I was at the campground in Myrtle Beach two weeks ago there were two 09 Cardinal 5er's there. I looked under the trailers and Lippert still uses the same axle and leafs as on mine(06). One trailer had six lug axles and the other one had eight lug axles.

It seems like Lippert doesn't think quality control isn't important.

 

[HBarlow]

If enough RV owners experience and REPORT problems with Lippert frames and suspension parts maybe Lippert will begin to feel the heat or maybe the manufacturers will.

 

[HBarlow]

Here is MGreer's original thread: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/towing-hauling-rv-forum/200493-sucks-5.html#post2056564

 

[JBallou]

I have a Thor Vortex 314FS toyhauler it is 31', is there a way to know if it has a Lippert frame? Does anyone have a picture of the "good" and "the bad". Can't seem to find a decal to ID what I have.

 

[CumminsPower98]

I have a Lippert frame under my Crossroads. I have quite a few outriggers that are bent and or broken at the top where they weld to the main I-beam. They have only one 90 deg. bend at the top rather than a "Z" shape like others have, which keeps the bottoms from bending. I also have a bad set of Al-KO axles that eat tires. The left rear is the main bad spot. Sure wish I had the trusted Dexter hardware under there. I bought the trailer used and this is how things were.

 

[HBarlow]

Lippert doesn't put their name on the xxxx they build and RV manufacturers don't brag about using Lippert frames and components. I would say if the axles and brakes aren't Dexter it is a Lippert frame.

Generally speaking Thor brands do use Lippert frames.

 

[HBarlow]

I have a Lippert frame under my Crossroads. I have quite a few outriggers that are bent and or broken at the top where they weld to the main I-beam. They have only one 90 deg. bend at the top rather than a "Z" shape like others have, which keeps the bottoms from bending. I also have a bad set of Al-KO axles that eat tires. The left rear is the main bad spot. Sure wish I had the trusted Dexter hardware under there. I bought the trailer used and this is how things were.

Crossroads builds attractive trailers. I pulled a few when I was transporting and consider them a good value-line trailer. If you like the trailer and the frame seems to be adequate inspect critical welds like the pinbox, points where springs and shocks attach to frame, and fresh water and holding tank supports and have them rewelded or beefed up if necessary.

For the future you could consider buying a set of complete Dexter axles w/brakes and have a good trailer (work trailer, not RV trailer) repair shop install them paying attention to the spring attachment points to the frame. Upgrade to higher weight rated axles, for example move up to 7,000# axles with a pair of 3500# springs, 8 lug wheels, 16" LRE tires. Replacement axles are not real expensive.